The "Born at Altitude" Argument and East African Dominance

It's not just altitude. We know for a fact that different populations have developed different ways of adapting to thin air. Some of those adaptations may be beneficial for distance running. Others are probably not.

Come on man, stop the "what could it be thing"! Are you blind? seriously.

You mean you cant look at a typical Kenyan and lets say, Bolivian and notice the physical differences. One is a complete ectomorph, the other is Sponge Bob Square pants. Both raised at altitude.

There's no such thing as an "ectomorph."

Africans are evolved at altitude. South Americans just got there in evolutionary terms.

The African altitude adaptation is deeply entrenched in their genome, particularly that of the Ethiopians.

The Kalenjin are still newcomers to altitude. Not enough time for significant evolution there.

stayed forever wrote:

Africans are evolved at altitude. South Americans just got there in evolutionary terms.

The African altitude adaptation is deeply entrenched in their genome, particularly that of the Ethiopians.

The people Machu Picchu definitely evolved at altitude. They developed very short legs and huge lungs.

Brad Wilkins wrote:

The Kalenjin are still newcomers to altitude. Not enough time for significant evolution there.

They interbred with people who did and nature selected from that stock.

stayed forever wrote:

Africans are evolved at altitude. South Americans just got there in evolutionary terms.

The African altitude adaptation is deeply entrenched in their genome, particularly that of the Ethiopians.

This isn't actually correct. While some Ethiopians have been at altitude for a very long time, the most successful Ethiopian runners are from the Oromo people, who migrated to altitude in the early modern era. The Kalenjin are also relative newcomers to altitude.

800 dude wrote:

stayed forever wrote:

Africans are evolved at altitude. South Americans just got there in evolutionary terms.

The African altitude adaptation is deeply entrenched in their genome, particularly that of the Ethiopians.

This isn't actually correct. While some Ethiopians have been at altitude for a very long time, the most successful Ethiopian runners are from the Oromo people, who migrated to altitude in the early modern era. The Kalenjin are also relative newcomers to altitude.

And they mixed with people already there and selected for those advantageous genes.

stayed forever wrote:

Brad Wilkins wrote:

The Kalenjin are still newcomers to altitude. Not enough time for significant evolution there.

They interbred with people who did and nature selected from that stock.

The Kalenjin do not have a history of interbreeding.

stayed forever wrote:

800 dude wrote:

This isn't actually correct. While some Ethiopians have been at altitude for a very long time, the most successful Ethiopian runners are from the Oromo people, who migrated to altitude in the early modern era. The Kalenjin are also relative newcomers to altitude.

And they mixed with people already there and selected for those advantageous genes.

800 dude is right.

Even if the Ethiopian tribes interbred, they would still be less 'adapted' to altitude than the people who had been there longer. Any genetic advantages the Oromo people have over the others would have been developed long before they were at altitude.

Brad Wilkins wrote:

stayed forever wrote:

They interbred with people who did and nature selected from that stock.

The Kalenjin do not have a history of interbreeding.

Sure they didn't.

Brad Wilkins wrote:

stayed forever wrote:

And they mixed with people already there and selected for those advantageous genes.

800 dude is right.

Even if the Ethiopian tribes interbred, they would still be less 'adapted' to altitude than the people who had been there longer. Any genetic advantages the Oromo people have over the others would have been developed long before they were at altitude.

Why? Selection of favorable available genes doesn't take forever.

stayed forever wrote:

Why? Selection of favorable available genes doesn't take forever.

It takes a very long time to see anything significant.

The point is all the other tribes who had been at altitude longer had a major head start on the Oromo and the Kalenjin. Whichever genes differentiated those two above the rest, they developed at sea level. Hence, the evidence shows that it's better to be born at altitude but LESS genetically adapted to it than your neighbors that have been there forever.

Brad Wilkins wrote:

stayed forever wrote:

Why? Selection of favorable available genes doesn't take forever.

It takes a very long time to see anything significant.

The point is all the other tribes who had been at altitude longer had a major head start on the Oromo and the Kalenjin. Whichever genes differentiated those two above the rest, they developed at sea level. Hence, the evidence shows that it's better to be born at altitude but LESS genetically adapted to it than your neighbors that have been there forever.

No, but I'll let you research that on your own.

The Oromo and Kalenjin likely already have plenty of other adaptations suitable for running and then the addition of the altitude adaptation gene creates the perfect mix.

What is important is that the altitude adaptation genes are in those populations, doesn't much matter HOW it got there.

Interbreeding is a white Royal family thing.

stayed forever wrote:

Brad Wilkins wrote:

The Kalenjin do not have a history of interbreeding.

Sure they didn't.

Okay honky wrote:

Interbreeding is a white Royal family thing.

stayed forever wrote:

Sure they didn't.

You seem to be confusing two terms.

stayed forever wrote:

Brad Wilkins wrote:

It takes a very long time to see anything significant.

The point is all the other tribes who had been at altitude longer had a major head start on the Oromo and the Kalenjin. Whichever genes differentiated those two above the rest, they developed at sea level. Hence, the evidence shows that it's better to be born at altitude but LESS genetically adapted to it than your neighbors that have been there forever.

No, but I'll let you research that on your own.

The Oromo and Kalenjin likely already have plenty of other adaptations suitable for running and then the addition of the altitude adaptation gene creates the perfect mix.

What is important is that the altitude adaptation genes are in those populations, doesn't much matter HOW it got there.

Blind speculation.

The facts are, both are relatively unadapted newcomers to altitude, as well as the Maasai, and these tribes (as well as other sea level Africans) outperform the tribes that have been at altitude for a long time.

If you move to altitude and have a child with a woman that has been there for millennia your child has a very good chance of inheriting those traits. Immediately.