Good News for Ritz: WADA Issues Statement on NOP L-carnitine usage - Doping Rules NOT Broken with 2011 Advice

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  • LetsRun.com
    your benevolent dictator
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 2:25pm CDT
    Forum Index
    WADA has issued the statement below saying that USADA did not give Alberto Salazar's group bad advice by saying they could inject less than 50mL of L-Carnitine in December of 2011. The Sunday Times had implied that that was an inadvertent violation of doping rules as the Times thought the 50mL guideline did not go into effect until January 2012. The Times implied Alvina Begay and Dathan Ritzenhein may have broken anti-doping rules as a result. The good news is they did not as long as they did not inject more than 50mL every 6 hours.

    The WADA statement shows that injections of less than 50mL were allowed prior to January 2012. The January 2012 WADA changed "clarified and re-emphasized" that injections less than 50mL were allowed.

    Link and Statement below:

    https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2015-04/wada-clarification-regarding-status-of-injections-infusions-of-50ml-or-less

    "An article in The Sunday Times (London) on Sunday, 29 March 2015, suggested that the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) Science Director gave inaccurate advice in December 2011 by stating that injections of up to 50 mL of a non-prohibited substance were permissible under the WADA Prohibited List.

    We have now received the communications that took place between Alberto Salazar and the USADA Science Director during December 2011.

    We can confirm that the advice given by the USADA Science Director was accurate and consistent with medical practice in place at the time.

    The change to the List on 1 January 2012 clarified and re-emphasized the practice relating to infusions and injections to ensure that medical practice was clear in that injections / infusions less than 50ml, and not less than 6 hours apart were permitted. Infusions / injections above that amount or frequency are prohibited.

    We'll update our article to reflect this news.
  • I'm No Doctor, But
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 5:17pm CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
    Forum Index
    "medical practice..."

    Since when is injecting anything with the desired result of improving athletic performance a medical practice?
  • reader of the forums
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 5:20pm CDT
    re: I'm No Doctor, But
    Forum Index
    I'm No Doctor, But wrote:

    "medical practice..."

    Since when is injecting anything with the desired result of improving athletic performance a medical practice?

    This.
  • Coach..
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 5:23pm CDT
    re: I'm No Doctor, But
    Forum Index
    I want to hear about the good stuff not the l-carnitine

    Could the Sunday times ask MO about epo
  • 49.99 ml x4
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 6:12pm CDT
    Forum Index
    So, too be safe they injected 50.00+0/-.01 ml, every six hours, on the dot, 4 times a day, 7 days a week, all year long. That's nearly 200ml per day. 1.4 liters per week, and almost 73 liters per YEAR of L-Cartinine.

    Wowsers.
    DANG!
    NIKE, shame on you.
  • wejo
    cofounder
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 6:12pm CDT
    Forum Index
    Me. wrote:

    reader of the forums wrote:

    I'm No Doctor, But wrote:

    "medical practice..."

    Since when is injecting anything with the desired result of improving athletic performance a medical practice?

    This.


    This x2.

    Plus, anybody injecting themselves with anything, or letting someone else inject them with anything, to improve athletic performance, is a **** including Dathan Ritzenhein.



    It is interesting how a lot of people draw the line with injections even when they are legal.

    If injecting l-carnitine is easy to do and harmless, then why does someone need to fly to a doctor in Houston to get it done? Couldn't a local GP do it like an allergy shot? Or is it some more complicated medical procedure?
  • Ben L Wrong
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 6:23pm CDT
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    Who's that Dr. from Houston?
  • Case Closed
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 6:50pm CDT
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    That's because a lot of people on this board can't think for themselves. Supplements and drugs can be ingested, sprayed, absorbed and even inhaled. Unfortunately, some folks hear injection and they run for the pitchforks and ropes.

    I know of a prominent university that gives B12 injections to their athletes twice a year (not Oregon). I guess they're cheating?

    Again, we're talking about a legal supplement done legally. Good enough for WADA, USADA and IAAF. Good enough for me.

    As far as the poster who makes the accusation that the NOP was doing this repeatedly over the course of the year, I would like to know what proof you had. According to the leaked emails, it was done just once. But that's right, facts don't matter around here.







    wejo wrote:

    Me. wrote:

    reader of the forums wrote:

    I'm No Doctor, But wrote:

    "medical practice..."

    Since when is injecting anything with the desired result of improving athletic performance a medical practice?

    This.


    This x2.

    Plus, anybody injecting themselves with anything, or letting someone else inject them with anything, to improve athletic performance, is a **** including Dathan Ritzenhein.



    It is interesting how a lot of people draw the line with injections even when they are legal.

    If injecting l-carnitine is easy to do and harmless, then why does someone need to fly to a doctor in Houston to get it done? Couldn't a local GP do it like an allergy shot? Or is it some more complicated medical procedure?
  • A Duck
    registered
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 6:56pm CDT
    re: I'm No Doctor, But
    Forum Index
    I'm No Doctor, But wrote:

    "medical practice..."

    Since when is injecting anything with the desired result of improving athletic performance a medical practice?

    Heard of "sports medicine" ???

    Vitamin B shots are/were common.
  • A Duck
    registered
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 7:01pm CDT
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    wejo wrote:

    Me. wrote:

    reader of the forums wrote:

    I'm No Doctor, But wrote:

    "medical practice..."

    Since when is injecting anything with the desired result of improving athletic performance a medical practice?

    This.


    This x2.

    Plus, anybody injecting themselves with anything, or letting someone else inject them with anything, to improve athletic performance, is a **** including Dathan Ritzenhein.



    It is interesting how a lot of people draw the line with injections even when they are legal.

    If injecting l-carnitine is easy to do and harmless, then why does someone need to fly to a doctor in Houston to get it done? Couldn't a local GP do it like an allergy shot? Or is it some more complicated medical procedure?


    Citizens who can afford it routinely fly to better doctors and hospitals.

    For instance, people move to Seattle for a month or two for chemo, I just met one a few weeks ago, and I know more.

    Yet you can get routine chemo in tons of cities.

    The main focus of NOP, according to tons of reports, is to prevent over training. Assessing the biomarkers for overtraining is why you might have a specialist team doctor.

    For "experts" you don't know much.

    Do you know how much and how many elites discuss and carp about the fact that they can't get into see this or that top pro athletics physio??????
  • Simple Shot
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 7:17pm CDT
    re: A Duck
    Forum Index
    A Duck wrote:
    Citizens who can afford it routinely fly to better doctors and hospitals.

    For a simple l-carnitine shot?
  • Health
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 7:23pm CDT
    re: A Duck
    Forum Index
    With all the various stuff NOP seem to be putting in to their athletes I hope they (the athletes) haven't signed away their rights to sue for compensation should future health problems arise because of it.
  • reader of the forums
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 7:26pm CDT
    re: Case Closed
    Forum Index
    Case Closed wrote:

    wejo wrote:

    Me. wrote:

    reader of the forums wrote:

    I'm No Doctor, But wrote:

    "medical practice..."

    Since when is injecting anything with the desired result of improving athletic performance a medical practice?

    This.


    This x2.

    Plus, anybody injecting themselves with anything, or letting someone else inject them with anything, to improve athletic performance, is a **** including Dathan Ritzenhein.



    It is interesting how a lot of people draw the line with injections even when they are legal.

    If injecting l-carnitine is easy to do and harmless, then why does someone need to fly to a doctor in Houston to get it done? Couldn't a local GP do it like an allergy shot? Or is it some more complicated medical procedure?


    That's because a lot of people on this board can't think for themselves. Supplements and drugs can be ingested, sprayed, absorbed and even inhaled. Unfortunately, some folks hear injection and they run for the pitchforks and ropes.

    I know of a prominent university that gives B12 injections to their athletes twice a year (not Oregon). I guess they're cheating?

    Again, we're talking about a legal supplement done legally. Good enough for WADA, USADA and IAAF. Good enough for me.

    As far as the poster who makes the accusation that the NOP was doing this repeatedly over the course of the year, I would like to know what proof you had. According to the leaked emails, it was done just once. But that's right, facts don't matter around here.


    Alternate theory: People can think for themselves, it's just that they don't share your view.

    Taking something, even if it is not banned, for the sole purpose of shaving seconds or minutes off of your PR (as Salazar thought this would do), is highly questionable.
  • I'm Not A Lawyer, But
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 8:34pm CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
    Forum Index
    From WADA's 2011 Prohibited List:

    https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/WADA_Prohibited_List_2011_EN.pdf

    M2. CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL MANIPULATION
    The following is prohibited:
    2. Intravenous infusions are prohibited except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions or clinical investigations.

    So.... London Times.... care to raise this point?

    WADA, care to make another statement?

    WADA's 2012 Prohibited List:
    https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/WADA_Prohibited_List_2012_EN.pdf

    M2. CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL MANIPULATION
    The following is prohibited:
    2. Intravenous infusions and/or injections of more than 50 mL per 6 hour period are prohibited except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions or clinical investigations.

    Can Nike actually squeeze out of this one?
  • That one guy ----
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 8:36pm CDT
    re: reader of the forums
    Forum Index
    You have quite a bit more moral fiber than I do. Before a race I'll drink a pot of coffee, drop a few profins, put on my compression socks, and pound a couple of Gu gels along the race course. I would be lying if I didn't admit to smoking a bowl a few times out in the parking lot before the race (yeah, that's probably banned - but I've got a million probs and WADA ain't one). It's all for the sole purpose of shaving time off of my shitty PB.

    As long as AlSal and his boys play by the rules established by WADA, USADA or whoever is responsible for putting the sidelines and goal posts down, I could give a crap what they take and how they take it. Good for them. They wanna win. The rest y'all just gonna start copying the NOP anyway.
    ------------
    "Taking something, even if it is not banned, for the sole purpose of shaving seconds or minutes off of your PR (as Salazar thought this would do), is highly questionable."
  • I'm Not A Lawyer..
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 8:41pm CDT
    re: I'm Not A Lawyer, But
    Forum Index
    ROJO & WEJO,

    As journalists, why did you start this thread with the opinionated statement "Good News for Ritz.?" Thought you were against dopers.

    With the exception of WADA's recent statement that contradicts the published 2011 Prohibited List (this list came into effect 1 January 2011) this is doping. The 2012 Prohibited List allowing chemical manipulation up to a threshold came into effect, as detailed in the 2012 publish list, January 1 2012.
  • Exceptionalism
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 8:47pm CDT
    re: I'm Not A Lawyer..
    Forum Index
    Different rules for Salazar.

    Everyone else "supplemented" according to the 2011 prohibited list, but not Salazar.
  • TonyaH
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 8:48pm CDT
    re: That one guy ----
    Forum Index
    Ain't no specific WADA rule about me taking a baseball bat to elfie rupp's knees if I ever see that punkassbitch cheating doper in my hood.
  • I'm not a doctor
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 9:29pm CDT
    re: I'm Not A Lawyer..
    Forum Index
    I'm Not A Lawyer.. wrote:

    ROJO & WEJO,

    As journalists, why did you start this thread with the opinionated statement "Good News for Ritz.?" Thought you were against dopers.

    With the exception of WADA's recent statement that contradicts the published 2011 Prohibited List (this list came into effect 1 January 2011) this is doping. The 2012 Prohibited List allowing chemical manipulation up to a threshold came into effect, as detailed in the 2012 publish list, January 1 2012.

    You don't know the difference between an injection and an intravenous infusion, do you?
  • I'm Not An English Professor
    5 years ago 04/01/2015 9:58pm CDT
    re: I'm not a doctor
    Forum Index
    So the definition of an inception is:

    "An injection (often referred to as a "shot" in US English, or a "jab" in UK English) is an infusion method of putting fluid into the body, usually with a syringe and a hollow needle which is pierced through the skin to a sufficient depth for the material to be administered into the body."

    Apparently I do.