What is the big deal about NOP and L-Carnitine?

Y'all need to chill wrote:

It's not a banned substance so why is everyone getting their panties in a bunch?

Correct, it is not a big deal and the more investigators focus on legal supplements, the less they focus on the real violations.

Clearly Salazar is working extremely hard to provide PEDs "within the rules." That means it is very, very likely athletes are running exogenous testosterone, HGH, and micro dosing EPO. Blood transfusions are available too. All within the rules, all non-detectable and offer fantastic performance improvements. It's not like USATF will sanction their biggest sponsor.

Dr. Brown, endocrinologist to elite athletes lied at twice in the same article. He admits to experimenting on athletes and has denied that for years. He claims USADA gave him approval for experiments. Why not just hire Ferrari or Herida?

Forced team-wide doping is okay?

Uncontrolled human experimentation okay?

This scenario has already been played out (BALCO, cycling about 10 different times) and the result is NOP is likely doping.

Butt, because it is below the limits it must be okay. That is how a boy-scout like Rupp wouldn't worry about any issues. It has all been taken care of by the NOP heads.

It's not a PED.

runDirtyrun wrote:

Clearly Salazar is working extremely hard to provide PEDs "within the rules." That means it is very, very likely athletes are running exogenous testosterone, HGH, and micro dosing EPO. Blood transfusions are available too. All within the rules, all non-detectable and offer fantastic performance improvements. It's not like USATF will sanction their biggest sponsor..

Microdosing is not allowed under the rules. HGH and EPO are not allowed under the rules. USATF fortunately is out of the drug testing loop. USADA handles it in the US.

runDirtyrun wrote:

Dr. Brown, endocrinologist to elite athletes lied at twice in the same article. He admits to experimenting on athletes and has denied that for years. He claims USADA gave him approval for experiments. Why not just hire Ferrari or Herida?

I wouldn't come out and say he lied but in the past he gave the impression he just helped restore athletes to their natural thyroid levels. If he is injecting them with L-carnitine that is something completely different.

He should just come out and say "I'll do anything (within the rules) to help athletes perform better)."

He will probably be told to come out and say "It's within the rules." WADA will say nope, it is within the rules. Legal mayhem will ensure. The legal jousting will last for years: elephant against elephant.

grrrrr, no edit fuction...

WADA will say nope, it is *not* within the rules.

wejo wrote:

Microdosing is not allowed under the rules. HGH and EPO are not allowed under the rules. USATF fortunately is out of the drug testing loop. USADA handles it in the US.

It's abundantly clear Salazar uses any means necessary to increase performance. Micro-dosing EPO, exogenous Test and HGH tests are very easy to defeat and a direct route to international podiums.

USATF's perverse incentives to deliver "winners" at least every four years is enough to discourage opening sanctions against Nike athletes. And then there's that still undefined sum of money that Nike is giving USATF.

Wejo, how was "USADA handles it" explained to you? How often is USADA the anti-doping authority at USATF events? How much is USADA getting paid to perform this job? How many events per year? It should be a big budget number if this is not a lie.

Even if USADA is the ADO, it is the federation with the authority to open cases. They can simply ignore USADA's recommendation to open sanctions. This is within the rules and completely by design.

The reason that I run is to test my limits as a human being. The reason that I do not use drugs is because then I am not answering that question. Why would anyone use something that is not available to everyone else? That would not tell me whether or not I am the best.

If anyone is using something secretly it is for an advantage. Looking for an advantage is the mentality of a cheater. It doesn't matter whether it is banned. Your intention is to CHEAT.

runDirtyrun wrote:

Clearly Salazar is working extremely hard to provide PEDs "within the rules." That means it is very, very likely athletes are running exogenous testosterone, HGH, and micro dosing EPO. Blood transfusions are available too. All within the rules, all non-detectable and offer fantastic performance improvements. It's not like USATF will sanction their biggest sponsor.

Dr. Brown, endocrinologist to elite athletes lied at twice in the same article. He admits to experimenting on athletes and has denied that for years. He claims USADA gave him approval for experiments. Why not just hire Ferrari or Herida?

Forced team-wide doping is okay?

Uncontrolled human experimentation okay?

This scenario has already been played out (BALCO, cycling about 10 different times) and the result is NOP is likely doping.

Since when is an amino acid a drug?

secretly flirting with legal non-banned substances shows an intent. Why if your training methods are sound do you need to flirt with anything else?

A Duck wrote:

Since when is an amino acid a drug?

"Energy drinks also commonly contain amino acids and other additives. More than a third of teenagers consume energy drinks. Energy drinks and other over-the-counter supplement products have become a possible source of positive drug tests at both the Olympic and NCAA level. Because energy drinks may be consumed rapidly, the user may inadvertently ingest a large dose of caffeine, possibly with other stimulants, and can develop similar side effects to other stimulants."

Intentions wrote:

secretly flirting with legal non-banned substances shows an intent. Why if your training methods are sound do you need to flirt with anything else?

You know that almost every other elite runner has a cupboard full of supplements, right?

runDirtyrun wrote:

Even if USADA is the ADO, it is the federation with the authority to open cases. They can simply ignore USADA's recommendation to open sanctions. This is within the rules and completely by design.

Ummm. You're wrong. USATF is the client. USADA is the authority to open sanctions. It's USATF trying to ignore the doping authority that almost got them decertified by the USOC.

I am not sure what the issue is but people here are pretty concerned. I gather that there is concern about injecting the substance rather than drinking it. Does that create a benefit? I am not clear why Letsrun think the 2013 statements are a problem. It seems to match the story, not contradict it. I think athletes should consult a doctor. I bet most do.

I don't have any idea if NOP or anyone else is innocent or not. I would say that making a big deal of this, and openly saying A coach told athletes to lie when he didn't, could make it harder to be taken seriously when you have better sets of facts to present.

They did a better job on the Mark Block issue at the trials.