Bob Larsen on Ryan Hall: "I think he could have run close to a 2:10 (marathon) in high school."

I think he could run 2:10 to 2:12 in HS.

I remember hearing Hall was doing 10 to 15 milers at 5:00 pace in high school at altitude.

That may sound crazy to run 2:10 to 2:12 in HS but so does saying a high schooler could run 3:53 for the mile.

Could have is like imagining something could happen. Much like the Quentin Cassidy fictional 3x20x440y workout.

HS record is either 2:23:47 or 2:23:05.

I would argue with a lot of people about a lot of things about training and racing, but based on several decades of running for, seeing his coaching and knowing the results his athletes have put up, I would never argue with Coach Larsen about what he says an athlete is capable of.

What was Hall's best highschool time in the 2-mile or 5000m?

I posted this in another thread in which I was arguing that the US really hasn't progressed a whole lot in the marathon. It wasn't unusual for Larsen's guys to run marathon's between seasons and as he put it "we really didn't think the times the guys ran were really that special".

These are the top marks run by UCLA guys while still under grads. As a note: Gompers ran 2:15:28 as a junior (not college junior but under age 19).

Funny but a 2:13 -2:14 is considered better in the US now than it was some 30 years ago...

Marathon

(26 miles, 385 yards)

1) 2:13:21 Steve Ortiz 1981

2) 2:14:02 Rich Brownsberger 1986

3) 2:18:07 Dan Caprioglio 1983

4) 2:20:31 Willie Ayyad 1983

4) 2:20:31 Jerry Marsh 1983

6) 2:20.38 Kyle Shackleton 2008

6) 2:20.38 Alex Crabill 2010

8) 2:20:54 Ron Cornell 1979

9) 2:24:02 Mark Kushner 1975

10) 2:27:34 Vicken Simonian 1977

Colorado had a group equal to this maybe even a little better in the 80's

Larsen is one of the most underrated distance coaches in the US.

irv ray used to correspond with my coach back circa 2000, and irv & him would swap workouts back and forth. I've heard about Hall doing legit 10milers in 50-51, and was always impressed by the 12x400 at just under 58, w/ 45s recovery. That 400 workout showed 3:38 fitness, yet he only ran 3:43, and was not close to winning that race.

one of the big things to remember about high school runners in general is this: they are naturally workout kings. not saying that they or their coaches try for this, it's just a natural thing that HS kids are often capable of workouts that point to far better results than they can get. take that same 400 workout for a memebr of the oregon track club (say a 27y/o post collegiate) and he'll run 3:38, as the workout predicts.

I imagine the same holds to some extent with mr hall, but he DOES seem to have a much greater long distance aerobic talent, so perhaps he very well could have run 5flat pace for 40+ Km's, who knows? Bob Larsen is not a dumb guy, he knows his stuff and I'd listen when he speaks, so anywhere in the 2:10-2:12 region i think is actually a reasonable prediction for mr hall in HS. of course, we'll never know, will we? :)

Well Gompers ran 2:15 as a Junior, certainly Hall had more ability than Gompers, The Junior Women's record was set this year in 2:20.59, certainly Hall could have run 8-10 minutes faster than the fastest Junior woman.

The USA is way behind how it does in ALL running events in the Marathon ESPECIALLY at the junior level.

People are different ages in high school so I use the Junior records, Juniors are USUALLY freshmen in college, but can be seniors in high school.

Look at the Track high school and Junior records High School Chapa 28:32, Junior Rupp 28:15 (Note Lindgren ran a 6 mile which equates to a 28:09 for 10000) also note in the open women's marathon Radcliffe ran 2:15 with a best 10000 of 30:00 minutes and some of the sub 2:20 women have barely or may not have even broken 31 minutes at 10000.

So it makes sense that a male who runs close to 4 minutes for the mile who regularly ran 10-15 miles at a little over 5 minute pace lets just say 5:10-5:20 if tapered could run 5 minute pace for the marathon

Radcliffe is not the best comparison as no one has her endurance to convert 10000, even so Hall was as a junior so much faster than Radcliffe and EVEN as a younger athlete he was physiologically best for the half marathon and marathon though he was running the 1500/mile.

If our top Juniors seriously tried to run a fast marathon, the Junior record would be faster, probably by a few minutes, so yes physiologically he was capable.

One of the reasons the USA lags in the marathon compared to other running events is because MOST (not all, I know there are exceptions) wait until there best days are behind them to run a marathon examples Kennedy was not a 7:30 for 3000 and 12:58 for 5000 runner and Nenow was not a 27:20 for 10000 runners when they ran their marathons, their legs were shot by the time they ran their marathons.

Nenow only gave the marathon 1 try in 2:14 he was running pretty good 13:26/27:48 but he was being less consistent.

Kennedy ran his best times in the 90's his marathon DNF was in 2004

douglas burke wrote:

Well Gompers ran 2:15 as a Junior, certainly Hall had more ability than Gompers, T.

If you wired 100 Ryan Halls's brains together it wouldn't even come close to one Paul Gompers' brain, even with the flu and a hangover.

To stick with the thread topic and answer the OP, NO, unequivocally NO, there was nothing about Hall's HS career that indicated the ability to run 2:10.

malmo wrote:

douglas burke wrote:

Well Gompers ran 2:15 as a Junior, certainly Hall had more ability than Gompers, T.

If you wired 100 Ryan Halls's brains together it wouldn't even come close to one Paul Gompers' brain, even with the flu and a hangover..

Damn'd Millennial over achiever, that one. (Teaches at Hah-vud Biz Skl). Makes us all look bad. I'm guessing he's not on the popular "marijuana and running" thread here.

2:18 (OT qualifier) yes, 2:15 maybe, 2:10 no.

malmo wrote:

douglas burke wrote:

Well Gompers ran 2:15 as a Junior, certainly Hall had more ability than Gompers, T.

If you wired 100 Ryan Halls's brains together it wouldn't even come close to one Paul Gompers' brain, even with the flu and a hangover.

To stick with the thread topic and answer the OP, NO, unequivocally NO, there was nothing about Hall's HS career that indicated the ability to run 2:10.

If Hall had actually been kept back the grades that he failed he most certainly would be capable of 2:10 in high school..

"It's got a lot of great insight including how Hall's buildup before his 2:04 was awful"

Can you elaborate on this? Granted I read the article a couple days ago, I don't remember the part about his buildup for 2:04 being awful.

Larsen is one of those guys that I just assume knows more about everything running-related than I do, but sufficed to say that claim is tough to swallow.

Would like to see the Colorado list. I am sure Oregon has a pretty good one too. Come to think of it I think Salazar had a season of Track elibibility left when he won NYC in 2:09 wearing an Oregon singlet. The current crop of US marathoners seem to be setting their sights too low.

agc5k wrote:

"It's got a lot of great insight including how Hall's buildup before his 2:04 was awful"

Can you elaborate on this? Granted I read the article a couple days ago, I don't remember the part about his buildup for 2:04 being awful.

I recall the LetsRun preview talked about his problems during the buildup. They said something like "we bet he'd be happy running 2:10 for 4th this time" (not knowing the weather yet obviously).

Triviot wrote:

One of the (many) problems with letsrun is an obsession with trivia like this. Is this the real problem with American distance running?

If you have a problem with trivia, never follow a major sport like football, soccer, etc.