Race: what the Mary Cain NYT article is really about

I agree somewhat, but I think there is a big difference in being an 800m specialist (Ajee) and an 800/1500 phenom that seems to have a potential for range over 1500-10000m over 10+ years.

When I look at Ajee I see potential to medal in the next few years, but she is already at that top level. Maybe she runs 1:57 at some point, but the future for her is now.

Mary is eyeing 2016/2020, and there are possibly 3 events that should could medal in before all is said and done.

I think you are making my point, Lenny.

Ajee' did run 1:57: last year, which was the fastest time in the world, at the age of 20. She has far from peaked in her career.

She has a better chance to medal in '16 than Cain. Look at their respective fields (800 and 1500). There are 10 women better than Cain right now. There is one woman better than Ajee' (Eunice Sum).

Moving on to 20 and 24, Ajee' can continue to improve in the 800 and dominate this event for years. And she can grow into the 1500.

So, again, we have two teenage phenoms, both turned pro without going to college. One is already a proven force on the world stage with more room to grow. the other is "potential." Why do we focus only on one?

You first have to understand that the NYT Sports covers a lot of black athletes. You don't go first to the racism charge here. Mary Cain is a New Yorker. They cover New York first and foremost. Then she runs for Al Salazar, who loves to talk to the press, or who gives good stories. Now Mary Cain is very good with the press, whereas Ajee' Wilson is not--very reserved, giving one or two word answers. Wilson is much more accomplished in terms of victories. She has won World Youth, World Juniors, and was 6th at World's, in addition to having a fine Euro campaign last year. She has run a very fast 1:57.67. She will be 21 in May.

Mary Cain is two years younger. Her pr at 1500m, 4:04, run just after her 17th birthday, is 8 seconds faster than Wilson's. Her 1k pr, run when she was 17 and about 10 months, is 9 seconds faster than Wilson's. Her 800m pr is nearly 2 seconds slower, at 1:59.51, but she ran that at age 17 and 1 month, whereas Ajee' did not break 2 until age 19. She can run as fast or faster than Ajee's 400m pr of 54, but has also run 8:58, at age 18, in a tactical race where she blew away the Ethiopian runner-up at World Juniors in the last 200m, and 15:45, just for the qualifying time at age 17. She owns the American high school record at 800m (1:59.51: Ajee' has the American junior record at 1:58.21 at age 19), and the American junior records at 1500m (4:04) and 1M (4:24?), and is close at 3000m (8:58 (8:57 is listed as the record)), and 2M (9:39 (this is the record, I think), and 5000m (15:43 is listed as the record but Huddle has 15:36). So, you can see that while Wilson has been terrific, Cain has outperformed her at every event other than 800m and was ahead of her at 800m as well at 17.

Cain has not run well so far but if she picks up this summer where she left off last winter or the previous summer, she'll likely challenge Wilson at 800m, break 4 in the 1500m, run sub 8:40 at 3k, and maybe even run a low 15 5k. Hard to compete with that. There's not been a single female prospect like that in the United States since Mary Decker in the 1970s.

oab wrote:

This article should not have been about Mary Cain.

The most accomplished and promising female mid-D runner in the US is Ajee' WIlson, hands down. I'd love to see anyone here argue that fact.

The real question is why do we always obsess over Cain and not Wilson (even here to what I have seen).

I can only come up with one answer: Race. If Ajee' was white, she would be the darling prodigy.

While these stories in the NY Times give needed press to our sport, it would be radical if they (and we) were more objective in who we highlight as the future.

Or Ricky Simms has better media connections than Ray Flynn?

Ajee is older though. NY Times should have done a similar article about her two years ago. Maybe they did, I don't know. I don't pay much attention to anything below 1500/mile.

Dont forget Chanelle Price who came up slightly before these two.

according to this link, Cain ran 55.74 400m in 2011, at age 14 or 15. So, it is pretty likely that she can run 53 now.

http://ny.milesplit.com/athletes/insider/694414-mary-cain#.VPnMAhYZvfI

I agree that part of the mary cain hype is because she is a type of smart white girl suburban very familiar to journos and track fans. There are thousands and thousands of girls exactly like Mary Cain at every xc meet at van cortlandt every week in the fall. I mean exactly. (In background, not speed)

So when one of those girls does something extraordinary and is living an unusual life, it is just more interesting to many people than yet another fast young black woman.

I can sympathize - I feel I know MC - she is of pretty much exactly the social class I am from - she could be the daughter of any one of my colleagues.

Ajee...not so much.

Plus MC has a very lively personality - Ajee doesn't. In public anyway.

but I am really agreeing with you - Ajee should be getting these articles.

valid points all, except that Cain will not challenge Wilson at 800. Two different runners, two different classes.

I believe race plays a very big part in it. The attention that Cain gets forces her to cultivate an image. I find that image contrived. Ajee' doesn't get that kind of press, just some LRC and Flo interviews after a race. Talk to her and the personality comes out.

The AlSal angle of course makes her a bigger story, yes. But when Ajee' went pro out of high school, that set the stage for Cain and Efraimson. In many ways, she is a trailblazer.

But we are considering numbers, and the bottom line is, Ajee' has been competing at a higher level than Cain. In 2 years, do you think Cain is #2 in the world in her discipline? I sincerely doubt it. I think Cain can make the finals in Rio. I doubt she is anywhere near a medal by then.

Cain has most of the HS records from 800m to two miles, Ajee has none. Not everything is about race (racing is more important).

Ajee is a great athlete who, for better or worse, is not exuberant in interviews. Cain is the polar opposite on this measure.

I would compare Ajee's demeanor and career on the men's side to Rupp's, whereas Cain has similarities to Webb. Different styles and paths, one more attractive to media than the other.

agip, I appreciate your honesty here. This characterization captures my point exactly. Call it what you will--bias, prejudice--we're comfortable with certain things for a reason.

However, we are brave and creative enough to challenge these notions.

I am not a fan of the NOP and Salazar, and I had the thought that the story should've been about Wilson, but this post is 100% right. The fact that Cain is a New Yorker is probably the most important. I didn't know the details of their times and accomplishments, so thank you for comparing them.

I'll point out one more thing -

MC is just plain more popular than Ajee Wilson. Sort of a chicken or the egg problem, but look at twitter followers -

MC: 14,500

Ajee: 3,100

And MC is barely alive on twitter, while Ajee is active.

More people care about MC than Ajee - maybe it would even out if there were more articles about Ajee, I dunno.

agip wrote:

I'll point out one more thing -

MC is just plain more popular than Ajee Wilson. Sort of a chicken or the egg problem, but look at twitter followers -

MC: 14,500

Ajee: 3,100

And MC is barely alive on twitter, while Ajee is active.

More people care about MC than Ajee - maybe it would even out if there were more articles about Ajee, I dunno.

the thing I love about running is that it's not a popularity contest in the end. You get to the line faster than someone else. That's the judge. So, in that regard, I would just like to see more objective inclusion of Wilson in the public discussion. Maybe it is naive to expect that in the NYT. But it could and should be more balanced in running forums.

oab wrote:

The attention that Cain gets forces her to cultivate an image.

So Nike carefully groomed her to come across as a nerdy somewhat hyper-active goofball as part of their marketing plan?

They're both wonderful.

And I agree Ajee deserves waaaaaaaay more attention, she's a great runner and a great role model.

She has a lovely, humble, subtle, quiet personality which may be an advantage because she tends to stay a little more under the radar and hopefully that puts less pressure on her.

Nonetheless, she should be receiving more recognition.

I like Mary Cain's bubbling over personality too and I think they're both doing brilliantly at such a young age.

I don't think it's deliberate. What she does is, in my opinion, forced. I'm sure I'm not the only one who harbors that opinion. It's a byproduct of the situation she has been thrust into. It plays out perfectly for Nike, yes, she's a great spokesperson for the demographic that they market her to. I don't think it's a master plan. But it's another indication of how the rules of race effect people's behavior and impressions.

Monkeys typing wrote:

So Nike carefully groomed her to come across as a nerdy somewhat hyper-active goofball as part of their marketing plan?

oab wrote:

valid points all, except that Cain will not challenge Wilson at 800. n.

I'd pump the brakes there on that. She may not challenge Wilson but it might be by choice. I have always felt Cain could be a great 800 runner. It might even be her best event.

Also regarding career trajectory. .. my guess is Wilson will not improve much only because there isn't much room to improve from 1:57, so this is not a criticism. The clean limit for ladies is probably not much less than 1:57. Her task will be maintaining that level and being a great racer.

Finally, we're all mostly big fans of both and I agree Wilson should get more press, she is spectacular.

LetsRun.com wrote: One could easily argue that Ritz was a better HS runner than Webb but Webb got all of the national press, was that racism?

Yes.