Marathon Training - Sleep vs Supplementary/2nd Morning Runs before work?

If you want to get faster you should sacrifice an hour of socializing or internet before sacrificing an hour of sleep or running.

Socializing and the internet will not make you faster.

I asked this same question eaier this week and someone had a good answer. Both. One week wake up early and put in some miles, next week sleep in. This actually sounds more logical from a physiological standpoint opposed to every other day.

sleep and enjoy life. the world around you will open up and you may miss opportunities to make money. Start by investing in the ultra low oil stocks, and bet that the Euro will be on par with the us dollar in 5 years.

I generally need at least 9 hours of sleep when running doubles.

Without my 9 hours I always get myself in some injury related trouble when training hard.

Purely my personal experience, but you can't really cheat sleep...

You can't get adequate recovery when doubling.

If you need more mileage, get them in singles.

Are you trying to qualify for something? That would be worth putting your life on hold for. Or if you want to win a goal marathon. If you just want to run fast (even faster in your case) then do some early morning runs when you fell fresh, and skip them when you feel tired.

joho wrote:

If you want to get faster you should sacrifice an hour of socializing or internet before sacrificing an hour of sleep or running.

Socializing and the internet will not make you faster.

Correct. The other two items , will make you stronger and possibly faster.

Also, you don't have to do double everyday. And, you can taper off of the doubles when you are within 10 days or 2 weeks from the marathon. It's always good to have fresh legs at the starting line.

From my own experience - two runs a day is better than one in an ideal training world.

However if you want to maintain a successful work and social life, twice a day training can push fatigue and stress towards over training.

Now in my mid 30's I train 5-6 times per week rather than up to 13 times per week I did 10 years ago. My times a slower (about 1 minute over 10km) but not as much as I would have thought and further I have more time and energy for family and work.

In addition with running less, I enjoy running much more and I definitely have less aches and pains!

First of all. doubles aren't "supplementary" training - they are part of normal training. Secondly, I don't get why you think that you are trading sleep for your morning run? You simply go to bed earlier.

The day that morning runs in the dark, cold rain seem completely uneventful and ordinary, is the day you can call yourself a runner.

If you can, take a nap during the day. A 20 minute nap can be "worth" 1-2 hours of sleep in many ways.

malmo wrote:

I don't get why you think that you are trading sleep for your morning run? You simply go to bed earlier.

This does not work if you are a night owl or have insomnia. I think you just have to find what fits into your own life and your own priorities. It's better to stay mentally healthy, however you need to do that. There are days when I feel amazing because I ran twice and there are days when I know heading out the door again will make me hate running.

My advice is for competitive runners, not fitness runners. There are more appropriate forums on Runnersworld for you to participate on, txrunnergirl.

malmo wrote:

My advice is for competitive runners, not fitness runners. There are more appropriate forums on Runnersworld for you to participate on, txrunnergirl.

I am not sure where the hostility comes from. Have I ever said or done something to you specifically? If so, please have the balls to tell me.

Like the OP, I have "Full time office job / Life / Marathon training," so it looks like this is a "fitness runner" discussion.

If your goal is to be as fast as possible in the marathon, you will have to sacrifice something, whether it's a social life or "using the internet." (I assume you're being facetious)That doesn't mean you can't have a life. Think about Jerome Drayton. He had a full time job...did 10 miles before work, 8-10 miles after work, sometimes 18 miles after work. He had a social life. While it was limited, he has spoken about how he wanted to get his evening run out of the way so that he could go out and have a beer on Saturdays or Sundays.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

This does not work if you are a night owl or have insomnia.

Your weakness controls you. Jumbo, one of the greatest coaches who have ever lived, had a mantra, "live like a clock". When you live like a clock, you own the clock. If you don't live like a clock, the clock owns you. Whether or not you want to own, or be owned, is up totally up to you.

Most successful runners want to control their destiny. The first step to controlling your destiny is to control your own diurnal metronome.

malmo wrote:uote]

Your weakness controls you. Jumbo Elliott, one of the greatest coaches who have ever lived, had a mantra, "live like a clock".

Fixed.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

malmo wrote:

I don't get why you think that you are trading sleep for your morning run? You simply go to bed earlier.

This does not work if you are a night owl or have insomnia. I think you just have to find what fits into your own life and your own priorities. It's better to stay mentally healthy, however you need to do that. There are days when I feel amazing because I ran twice and there are days when I know heading out the door again will make me hate running.

If you're running doubles most every day, you probably won't be a night owl for long.

persuader wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

This does not work if you are a night owl or have insomnia. I think you just have to find what fits into your own life and your own priorities. It's better to stay mentally healthy, however you need to do that. There are days when I feel amazing because I ran twice and there are days when I know heading out the door again will make me hate running.

If you're running doubles most every day, you probably won't be a night owl for long.

Been there, done that and yes I still could not sleep. I was lucky to get 5 hours of sleep despite trying. I would lay in bed for 3+ hours before actually falling asleep. I did this for about 5 years in high school and college, so not just a fluke.

I still incorporate doubles, but not every day. Plus I have an unusual work schedule of 11-8. I am not saying people should not double, but I am saying sleep (recovery) is more important, however you need to get it.

I would have to agree--sleep is very important, and for those of us who have difficultly in this area, it can become a key concern. I sometimes think that the more miles I run, the more trouble I have in falling asleep. I will need a larger sample size to confirm this, but insomnia does seem to break all boundaries. Happy running and restful sleep to all.