Just read "The Golden Mile" by Herb Elliott -- wow, just wow

Thanks, a nice summary of my favorite of the old guard.

Check out Why Die? for a nice account of Cerruty's life.

Maybe the most talented miler of all time. Someone once commented to the effect that he could have been coached to greatness by a third-grader. Frankly, the more I find out about Elliot's talent, and Landy's involvement with Cerutty, the less I am impressed with the latter. His primary role seems to have been in getting Herb motivated to train at all.

Elliott went on to become quite wealthy in business.

Here's The Man himself narrating the gold medal race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr0dWz_6oEI

In discussions with Percy, Herb, Albie and may others who trained together at the time, it is obvious that Percy did indeed make Herb who he was. Perhaps the most mentally strong athlete of any era. Percy told me in the 70's that he felt Herb could have run much faster in Rome, but he spent too much time developing his strength at the expense of his speed. Also, I've heard Herb say on more than one occasion, the question that irks him the most is something along the lines of "Imagine what you could have done if you had kept at it?" His response is classic. Again, I don't remember the exact quote, but "I could never again get to the psychological level that Perc had me at going into Rome. I may have gotten stronger or faster, but never would my mind be where it was at that time."(sic) That was Perc's true talent. Decades ahead of his time in nutrition, weights and base training and a master at poking and prodding you to get the most out of your mind. It worked for some, backfired on him with others.

That's the first running book I ever read, way back in the day. It was a nice start to be sure.

I don't know. Looking at pictures of Roger Bannister and Elliott, I think they were all taking testosterone, either from bull extract or synthetic, also maybe amphetamines.

That is why they were able to perform at such a high level over 50 years ago.

A 3:54 mile is still a big deal in Australia.

We know that Euro athletes were using testosterone - as a 'tonic' - as early as the 1920s with Paavo Nurmi, who won many gold medals. Hitler used it and it was a well-known PED for the Nazis in the 1940s. Also amphetamines were handed out like candy to German troops.

I would be shocked that these athletes werent using something. Look at how Bannister and Elliot had the same look, broad-shoulders and unusally muscled.

Let's face it also, in the days of PED testing a 3:54 miler in the UK and Australia has become an unusual feat because our gene pools don't support such unenhanced ability.

From one master to another running books are my favorites I probably have 30-50 on my shelves. I just couldn't see myself dropping that much $$ for one.

But I will keep my eye out for it thanks for the review.

Also suggested:

1) no bugles, no drums- snell

2) kiwis can fly- Agnew (walker, Dixon, etc)

3) the Jim Ryun story (first edition)- many, many detailed workouts

PTO - There are a few bibliophiles here on LR. Back in the pre-internet day, searching out and finding these bios were a true endeavour. Nowadays, between Abebooks, ebay and Amazon, it is is like shooting fish in a barrel. All you have to do is be willing to drop the cash. Nevertheless, it is still fun to obtain these hard-to-get running books. Happy hunting.

PTO wrote:

From one master to another running books are my favorites I probably have 30-50 on my shelves. I just couldn't see myself dropping that much $$ for one.

But I will keep my eye out for it thanks for the review.

Herb won both the 880 and the mile at the 58 Empire Games at Cardiff in 1958 and then went on to break the mile record at Dublin and the 1500 at Stockholm.

I cannot recall where I read it, (is it in the book) that Elliot and some of the Aussie team including Merv Lincoln and Albie Thomas? toured Europe in a VW campervan that summer and one day Herb got out and ran alongside the van for 28 miles for the sheer pleasure of running.

Thanks for the synopsis. Kip Keino's victory over Jim Ryun is the largest margin of victory, however --3 seconds handtimed, 2.98 electronic.

add two things -

1. Rome Olympics - I noticed the stands were half full/empty

2. there are two photos of him out there running barefoot, so I conclude he probably did some training barefoot

Binks wrote:

Herb won both the 880 and the mile at the 58 Empire Games at Cardiff in 1958 and then went on to break the mile record at Dublin and the 1500 at Stockholm.

I cannot recall where I read it, (is it in the book) that Elliot and some of the Aussie team including Merv Lincoln and Albie Thomas? toured Europe in a VW campervan that summer and one day Herb got out and ran alongside the van for 28 miles for the sheer pleasure of running.

It was actually only 15 miles and the van was Gordon Pirie's.

Interesting, thanks. I of course have never spoken to Elliott or Cerutty, but certainly the book leaves the impression that Elliott's heart wasn't totally in it after 1958, although of course he and Cerutty got him motivated to perform so well in Rome. Starting in 1959 (I believe), he had his new wife, new job, the upcoming scholarship to Cambridge which required coursework to prepare, their first baby in early 1960...the book makes it seem that even the running in 1960 was a bit of a chore. So I have no doubt, based on your comments and the book, that Elliott thinks he achieved all he could have achieved given his level of motivation. The comments re "wow, he had so much more upside!" carry an implicit assumption (in my mind at least) that the athlete would have wanted to keep at it.Moving to Cerutty (not directed at Ray), I've read Why Die! and Mr. Controversial and some others, and I have to admit that these books took some of the shine off of Cerutty for me. But that's probably healthy and appropriate since these past greats were human after all, and Cerutty certainly had his strengths and weaknesses to say the least. Regarding my comment that Elliott's olympic victory was the largest ever, I stand corrected (2.8 seconds to more like 2.98 in '68). I actually looked at the '68 results and somehow my mental math calculation failed me. Of course, there was the altitude factor in '68 as I don't think anyone thinks that Keino was 3 seconds better than Ryun in that period absent the extenuating circumstance, but that's an argument for another day. Thanks for correcting me though.

I agree with everything you said except for when you said he trained with good but not ideal coaching with Percy Cerutty. Wrong. Even Herb Elliot himself has said he would no have been great if he did not train with Percy. Herb actually didn't train with Percy. Percy gave Elliot the confidence to train himself. I'm surprised you reada the whole book and did not pick up on that. I actually haven't read it so I don't know what spin they put in his training. It was mostly self-driven and Percy would verily give advice, indeed but the athletes were in charge of their miles.

There's a story about a time when a reporter asked Cerutty about Elliott's training and he answered, "I have no idea what he does."

I have no evidence that early athletes weren't on drugs but evidence does show that ocean swimming twice a day and lifting three times a week will give you broad shoulders. Do you even train, bro?

LI Runner wrote:

PTO - There are a few bibliophiles here on LR. Back in the pre-internet day, searching out and finding these bios were a true endeavour. Nowadays, between Abebooks, ebay and Amazon, it is is like shooting fish in a barrel. All you have to do is be willing to drop the cash. Nevertheless, it is still fun to obtain these hard-to-get running books. Happy hunting.

PTO wrote:

From one master to another running books are my favorites I probably have 30-50 on my shelves. I just couldn't see myself dropping that much $$ for one.

But I will keep my eye out for it thanks for the review.

Thanks for tip never heard of Abebooks I use Amazon all the time buying used books.

I actually found Jim Fixx's Complete book of Running 1@2 at a garage sale a few years ago.

The big misconception people have with Cerutty is that it was his actual methods/sessions that made Elliot what he was. It was not. It was the human connection between them.

Cerutty had some whacky, and sometimes totally wrong, ideas. All that arm-flapping! He was also not especially pioneering (many of his Stotan beliefs were adaptations of the growing (if still small)consumerist health fad by the early 50's.

However, it was the combo of this psychology plus PC's force of personality that hit the spot for HE.

The lesson from PC is not that a Stotan lifestyle is best, or that miles are better than intervals, but that, at the top, psychology and coach charisma counts for more than you think.