I've seen 160lb guys deadlift over 600lbs. That seems inhuman to me. Meanwhile, I've seen guys who are 250lbs of muscle fail to do the same thing. What gives?
I've seen 160lb guys deadlift over 600lbs. That seems inhuman to me. Meanwhile, I've seen guys who are 250lbs of muscle fail to do the same thing. What gives?
The 250-lb muscle-head likely doing worthless exercises like the bench and curls. The other guy doing worthwhile lifts. He not fat because lifting causes round-the-clock metabolism.
As in pretty much all human endeavors, a combination of nature and nurture (aka genetics and training) is involved.
First, a lot of powerlifters *do* gain (some) weight as they get stronger. But because they're training primarily for pure strength, not hypertrophy, they typically don't grow as much as those on a bodybuilding regimen. And, again, they tend toward genetics that result in more gain in strength than gain in size.
In particular, powerlifters' routines typically involve somewhat fewer exercises than those of bodybuilders, and they generally perform fewer sets with lower reps (hence heavier weight), particularly as they move toward a competition.
...which sounds more like what we'd want distance runners to be doing: limited sets, few reps.
What lease said pretty much covers it, but I think it's important to emphasize the word "power." These athletes aren't slowly muscling up these weights, they are exploding up with them. I read somewhere that it's better to find weightlifting talent by observing an individual's jumping ability than their initial lifting numbers (I recall one olympic lifter who started as a high jumper, not to mention all of the great throwers who can/could jump round about 2 meters)
It's genetics, not training.
Factors such as:
-highly efficient nervous systems
-high % of FT fibers
-high tendon stiffness
-favorable leverage factors for lifting
...all contribute to elite powerlifters' superior strength/weight ratios for lifting.
As some of these attributes overlap with the requirements for sprinting and jumping, you would find that elite lifters are also well above average sprinters and jumpers in spite if the fact that they do not train for those events,
First of all, there are only a handful of 160 lb lifters who can deadlift 600 lbs. Secondly, the top 250 lb deadlifters pull more than that, but of course there are 250 lb guys who don't lift as much as the top lifters in lighter weight classes.
There are a lot of big fat powerlifters, but yes, there are guys who train a lot, can lift a lot of weight, but through a combination of diet and genetics, don't get that big.
I agree it's impressive for a little guy to lift that much, but it's not shocking.
Smooth Daddy wrote:
It's genetics, not training.
Factors such as:
-highly efficient nervous systems
-high % of FT fibers
-high tendon stiffness
-favorable leverage factors for lifting
...all contribute to elite powerlifters' superior strength/weight ratios for lifting.
As some of these attributes overlap with the requirements for sprinting and jumping, you would find that elite lifters are also well above average sprinters and jumpers in spite if the fact that they do not train for those events,
Yeah all of those hours and years of training have nothing to do with it. They were born lifting 600lbs.
fkf wrote:
Yeah all of those hours and years of training have nothing to do with it. They were born lifting 600lbs.
Much of the training competitive lifters typically do is irrational and counterproductive. Elite lifters are specimens who have always been far stronger than average.
Am I taking crazy pills?
elephino wrote:
First of all, there are only a handful of 160 lb lifters who can deadlift 600 lbs.
elephino wrote:
I agree it's impressive for a little guy to lift that much, but it's not shocking.
For me, a 55 y.o. distance runner, 355 DL @ 160#, so it doesn't surprise me that a young guy with genetics and specific training could do 600.
Hypertrophy training builds bulk and static strength. The strong man competitors are all huge guys. They don't need as much power, as the movements are more static.
Smooth Daddy wrote:
fkf wrote:Yeah all of those hours and years of training have nothing to do with it. They were born lifting 600lbs.
Much of the training competitive lifters typically do is irrational and counterproductive. Elite lifters are specimens who have always been far stronger than average.
None of those "specimens" were born lifting 600 lbs. I didn't say "stronger than average". I said "600lbs". Nice try trying to change the argument.
Nor did I say anything about irrational training. I said they spend years and hours training. I've seen guys add 100+ lbs to their PRs over time. Obviously training works. Their genetics did not change.
Badder Than Ghengis wrote:
For me, a 55 y.o. distance runner, 355 DL @ 160#, so it doesn't surprise me that a young guy with genetics and specific training could do 600.
Hypertrophy training builds bulk and static strength. The strong man competitors are all huge guys. They don't need as much power, as the movements are more static.
Look, I don't know whether it is surprising or not. I don't care.
I just know that if only "a handful of guys can do it" then it is surprising when someone does it. For example, only a "handful of guys have run under 3:46:50 for the mile," therefore it is surpising when it happens. You see how that works?
Otherwise, if a lot of guys are doing it (as in way more than a "handful"), then the post I responded to is stupid.
they do training that induces metabolic and structural changes in their body that contributes positively to their goal of lifting a lot of weight, but those changes do not involve increases in muscle fiber numbers or size.
just like running really (but of course different training and end goal) in terms of no weight gain.
there are millions of ~180 pound guys on earth but only a handful can run sub10 for 100m. genetics and proper skill training ftw.
It has been said before. ...you will not gain weight...except for newb gains (gains during the first 6mo or so of serious weight lifting)....without a calorie surplus. A calorie surplus however is not needed for strength gains.
Powerlifters typically train in the 1-5 rep scheme and very rarely anything else. They live above 90% max...which is a hard place to spend the vast majority of your training. Also, powerlifting is not really about power. ..its more about mechanical advantages and using the majority of your body to get the least amount of work but highest amount of load.
Alan
all of the answers so far have been fairely useless, even the ones that are partially correct.
key points:
- you wont gain weight unless ur in a calorie surplus, thats just how it works. you can make muscle gains and lose fat (aka body recompositioning) but ur weight will stay the same unless ur in a calorie surplus.
- genetics play a huge role in powerlifting (this has been mentioned). what hasent really been talked about it limb length. look at the strongest deadlifter for the 132lb class, his arms are crazy long and his lockout for the deadlift is pretty much at the top of his shin. he needs to move the weight a much sorter distance then someone with short arms and long legs. in the bench shorter arms are more beneficial (same concept as the smaller range of motion).
- the biggest factor that hasnt been mentioned is this: powerlifters practice their big 3 (bench, squat, and deadlift) a ton. by practicing the movement they get more efficient at that movement. if you deadlift 3 times per week for a month, ur body should (as long as ur form is solid) get better and better at that movements. ur ingraining a movement pattern that is unnatural to ur body and thus u will get better.
- i would also like to say that powerlifters do phase their training relatively specifically. depending on what program ur on, powerlifters will spend a ton of time in the 1-5 rep range (heavier weights), but a lot of the time they will also do higher rep stuff. more volume over time (similar to running) will lead to strength gains.
What kind of powerlifters are we talking about here? The only ones I've actually heard of are huge, and generally fat to boot.
Check out this guy, Maxx Chewning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-K8OEd2w0o
Guy is 160-165lbs and has a powerlifting total of over 1250 pounds. That seems insane to me. The guy has apparently only been lifting a few years too. WTF.
The methods of the Chinese lifters are pretty enlightening:
http://www.allthingsgym.com/larrys-chinese-weightlifting-experience-part-1-snatches-squats/
Also:
Freelove wrote:
What kind of powerlifters are we talking about here? The only ones I've actually heard of are huge, and generally fat to boot.
There are weight classes in powerlifting. The guys people hear about are usually the super HW because they put up the most weight.
There are also divisions, most notably geared vs raw. Geared means putting on a single-triple ply suit. Use it right and you'll squat or bench another 100+ pounds. Just look up records for raw v geared.
Deadlift is all about mechanical advantages. Making your arms as long as possible and reducing the length of pull.
Alan
Badder Than Ghengis wrote:
For me, a 55 y.o. distance runner, 355 DL @ 160#, so it doesn't surprise me that a young guy with genetics and specific training could do 600.
What are your running times at 55 y.o?