Let's be honest, who won WW II for the Allies?

Now This? wrote:

[quote]krispy kremlin wrote:

Anglo-Saxon americans and some jews saved the world from the Nazis and the Japs .."

Now Jews won WWII too?

smart finances wrote:

We couldn't have won it without our dedicated soldiers, but there were soldiers just as dedicated on the other side. So that wasn't the difference.

Our population supported the effort but so did the populations on the other side. That wasn't the difference either.

WW II was won by our business leaders and our scientists. Our business leaders retooled factories and manufactured weapons, tanks, planes at a level that the other side just couldn't match. They were the difference. Our business leaders won WW II.

We owe our freedoms to our business leaders.

Money, materials and technology will always play a critical part, but wars are won by the people who kill and get killed. Soldiers win wars....this has always been the case and always be the case. With out a doubt, it takes a supportive nation to succeed to war, but until the day business leaders and our scientists start dying on the battlefield, they won't get credit for winning wars.

smart finances wrote:

Our population supported the effort but so did the populations on the other side. That wasn't the difference either.

To be fair, the Germans did set about to killing what amounted to about 1% of their population (Jews). So there's that.

butt... wrote:

smart finances wrote:

Our population supported the effort but so did the populations on the other side. That wasn't the difference either.

To be fair, the Germans did set about to killing what amounted to about 1% of their population (Jews). So there's that.

not even 1% - germany was maybe half a percent Jewish by 1939.

the great irony is that by taking over france, poland, ukraine, belorus andpart of russia, he took in most of teh world's jews.

But I'm not following your argument- the soviets deliberately killed several million ukrainians in the 1930s and then hundreds of thousands of poles in 1940-41.

doesn't mean the rest of the ussr wasn't for the war effort.

It's important not to under-estimate the role of American and multi-national business leaders in World War II -- they deserve more credit than you give them.Were you thinking of businesses like Standard Oil, Ford, IBM, Chase, and UBC, just to name a few?

smart finances wrote:

We couldn't have won it without our dedicated soldiers, but there were soldiers just as dedicated on the other side. So that wasn't the difference.

Our population supported the effort but so did the populations on the other side. That wasn't the difference either.

WW II was won by our business leaders and our scientists. Our business leaders retooled factories and manufactured weapons, tanks, planes at a level that the other side just couldn't match. They were the difference. Our business leaders won WW II.

We owe our freedoms to our business leaders.

smart finances wrote:

We couldn't have won it without our dedicated soldiers, but there were soldiers just as dedicated on the other side. So that wasn't the difference.

Our population supported the effort but so did the populations on the other side. That wasn't the difference either.

WW II was won by our business leaders and our scientists. Our business leaders retooled factories and manufactured weapons, tanks, planes at a level that the other side just couldn't match. They were the difference. Our business leaders won WW II.

We owe our freedoms to our business leaders.

Men with GUNS stopped NAZISM...

Men with GUNS are now stopping the new evil...Liberalism.

GUNS Rule...those without them do not.

Russia, Britain and Germany won the Second World War in Europe but US intervention accelerated the German surrender and stopped Russia from expanding further west..

Germany could have successfully invaded Britain and won the war had

- Hitler not halted the German advance in to northern France, to the consternation of his generals. Continuing the advance would have prevented the evacuation of 400,000 British troops.

- Hitler, Goering and Hess been convinced that Germany could negotiate a peace agreement with the British Government.

1942 was the pivotal year in the war

- Russia decimated the German Army

- Britain successfully cut off German oil supplies from North Africa

- The British victory effectively won The Battle of the Atlantic maintain supply lines from the US and Canada

- The US joined the Allies

The courage of US military forces cannot be undervalued but the German surrender was inevitable after the events of 1942.

Historian wrote:

...

The courage of US military forces cannot be undervalued but the German surrender was inevitable after the events of 1942.

I'm going to guess that the German, Russian, British and even French military forces had levels of courage roughly equal to that of the Americans.

Courage R Us wrote:

Historian wrote:

...

The courage of US military forces cannot be undervalued but the German surrender was inevitable after the events of 1942.

I'm going to guess that the German, Russian, British and even French military forces had levels of courage roughly equal to that of the Americans.

french?

Some believe more frenchmen bore arms against the allies than against the axis. It's a debatable assertion, but just the fact that it is debatable is stunning.

but anyway, that poster doesn't seem to be saying that the courage of the US soldiers was superior to that of the other allies.

Amazing thing tho is that the americans were fighing in a different land - easier to understand how brave the russians were, when they were fighting on their own soil against an invader. but the americans...fighting on behalf of an idea - democracy - pretty amazing stuff.

agip wrote:

Courage R Us wrote:

I'm going to guess that the German, Russian, British and even French military forces had levels of courage roughly equal to that of the Americans.

french?

Some believe more frenchmen bore arms against the allies than against the axis. It's a debatable assertion, but just the fact that it is debatable is stunning.

but anyway, that poster doesn't seem to be saying that the courage of the US soldiers was superior to that of the other allies.

Amazing thing tho is that the americans were fighing in a different land - easier to understand how brave the russians were, when they were fighting on their own soil against an invader. but the americans...fighting on behalf of an idea - democracy - pretty amazing stuff.

http://history.stackexchange.com/questions/11437/more-frenchmen-bore-arms-for-the-axis-than-for-the-allies-during-the-second-wor

1) Americans are not special.

2) French forces get a bad rap. They were set up by their great leaders to lose and lose quickly. But the average French soldier was just as courageous as that of any other country.

Courage R Us wrote:

1) Americans are not special.

Bullshit.

Kevin52 wrote:

Courage R Us wrote:

1) Americans are not special.

Bullshit.

Thank you, Master 5th grader.

Germany could have successfully invaded Britain and won the war?

With what?

Germany never had the necessary invasion fleet to cross the English Channel with a suitable size invasion force, especially against a far superior navy and, with the British air force having won the Battle of Britain - without air superiority.

And as for the German surrender inevitable after 1942, had the Germans or more accurately, Hitler, played his cards right, they could have fought for a stalemate of the Russian front and come to terms with Stalin who never trusted the western allies throughout the war, always assuming they would be the ones to come to terms with Hitler.

Defeat inevitable in 1942? - even after Stalingrad - in March 43,on one of the rare occasions the 1st SS panzer corps (the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler, Das Reich and Totenkopt divisions) got together, they destroyed 52 Soviet divisions, recapturing Kharkov and Belgorod.

Soviet losses from 42 to final victory at Berlin in May 45 were horrendous and had Hitler let his generals dictate strategy, their losses would have been worse and Stalin very much tempted to arrange a truce - recall how upset he was when told the invasion of France was postponed until 44 - he always considered that the western allies were waiting for Soviet Red Army blood to cut a swathe through the German war machine before they dared cross the Channel.

And America was hardly in the war in 42, the first occasion the American army actually met the German armed forces in WW2 was at the Kasserine Pass in February 43, where they received a bloody nose from Rommel’s veterans.

it's a little bit of retrospect and therefore bad history, but when the advance on russia reversed itself and the US entered the war with a 'germany first' strategy, the war was pretty much over.

the allies were firm on not accepting a conditional surrender - they never wavered on that. even when feelers were sent out by germany. they were going to berlin to end the nazi threat.

binks, you are too contrarian. your utter and absolute need to have an opposing viewpoint has caused way too many errors in judgment and false claims from you. Try being neutral so you can better evaluate facts and not just instinctively lash out against the conventional wisdom before careful consideration. because you look like a fool too often - who needs that?

as for Kharkov and indeed the battle of the bulge - sure, when the germans got the stuff together they were still the best army in the world. but note that in both instances, the gains were shortlived and pyrrhic - kharkov was lost a few months later and the gains at the Bulge were lost in a matter of days or weeks.

The Russians did suffer huge casualties but were able to mobilize 36 million men and women, easily outnumbering the Germans despite losing 42% of their manpower.

Troop Strength on the German Eastern front

June 1941 - Axis 3.1 million, Red Army 2.7 million on the front lines (5.5 total)

June 1942 - Axis 3.7 million, Red Army 5.3 million

June 1943 - Axis 4 million, Red Army 6 million

June 1944 - Axis 3.7 million, Red Army 6.5 million

Jan 1945 - Axis 2.2 million, Red Army 6.4 million

I'll give you some credit for your statement about the German navy being under resourced but if Hitler had listened to Rommel in 1940 and not stopped the German advance after the Battle of Arrass, the Germans could have prevented the evacuation of 338,000 allied troops, which could have tipped the scales.

Little Boy

I wish I could go back in time and destroy the Red Army. It would have been fun to see Stalin captured and forced to race around the track after Bekele. Bekele would be jogging in front of him laughing and Stalin would collapse in a heap each time. It would be good punishment until he collapses to many times and can't get up again.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Stalin won it, plus sheer inevitability. Germany was overextended already early on, that's why they crazily invaded Russia to get oil. The Russians moved all their sh!t east so Barbarossa was doomed to fail eventually, even if the Germans didn't get fixated on Stalingrad.

Plus the Russians kept them out of Moscow with a well-designed system of fortifications.

What other country can you kill 20 million of their people but they keep fighting and beat you?

Anyone who need proof that Bad Wiggins is a pro-Russian troll ^here it is. The above post is from 2015 where he is salivating over his favorite country. Brojo’s—get this pro-Russian, FSB funded, Putin lovin’ commie off this site! Bann him now!!!!