Bill Rodgers asks: Should races have 'altitude born and non-altitude born' divisions?

Ask yourself if there is a disproportionate number of distance elites in the United States and Canada who were born at altitude. If not, then it probably means there's a lot more to the puzzle than at what elevation you were born.

wasn't Ryan Hall born at altitude?

Just to nitpick Tony Reavis's comment Patrick Tambwé ran 2:07:30 in 2012 and he was not born at altitude. He's from Congo, now representing France.

Chaffed wrote:

wasn't Ryan Hall born at altitude?

No, he was born in lovely Seattle. Why would he always be talking about his pour-over coffee?

past his prime wrote:

Ask yourself if there is a disproportionate number of distance elites in the United States and Canada who were born at altitude. If not, then it probably means there's a lot more to the puzzle than at what elevation you were born.

The question is not whether there's "more to the puzzle" than elevation. Obviously there's more to running than elevation. The question is whether it's significant at all.

Umm, there's no mega altitude population center in Canada. Maybe look at Leadville, CO born runners? Denver is not at high enough altitute IMO.

Ask yourself if there is a disproportionate number of distance elites in the United States and Canada who were born at altitude. If not, then it probably means there's a lot more to the puzzle than at what elevation you were born.

Bill is my favorite runner but he is unusually distracted by this. It is only one factor. I like the willing to train their balls off factor myself.

If we are willing to talk about have altitude divisions, why not go all-in and have PED and non-PED divisions?

I would rather decriminalize and de-stigmatize PED use as well as actually have real in-race data to finally answer the question we are all wondering: how much (if any) does PED use add to performance?

I know I will get crucified for saying this, but this is one of the dumbest threads ever, and if Bill Rogers actually stated all this, then......I can't say it.

Born at altitude or non altitude??? What altitude is the cutoff?

It's not "genetics" either, Rojo, but we will beat that on ad nauseum.

Skuj wrote:

I know I will get crucified for saying this, but this is one of the dumbest threads ever, and if Bill Rogers actually stated all this, then......I can't say it.

Born at altitude or non altitude??? What altitude is the cutoff?

It's not "genetics" either, Rojo, but we will beat that on ad nauseum.

+1

Reavis wrote:

I recall Sev (coach Bob Sevene)

Why abbreviate it to Sev if you are then going to write the first and last name? ;P

'I never really thought all that much about 'born at altitude'. I always just assumed 'genetics'. Or is it both? If a Kenyan baby is born at sea level, will it not be as good as one born at altitude'

All the Kenyan & Ethiopian elite are born at altitude in the Rift Valley. People lower down have the same genetics.Mo Farah & Paula Radcliffe have shown you don't have to be born at altitude but they are the exception rather than the rule and have compensated by spending extensive time at altitude

If you take a Kenyan permanently away from alittude their genetics count for nothing

Yes, it's on high time those blazingly fast Nepalese and Mexicans get their own races.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

People lower down have the same genetics.

Not true.

Different tribes/ethnicities developed diferently over the millenia.

rukol wrote:

ukathleticscoach wrote:

People lower down have the same genetics.

Not true.

Different tribes/ethnicities developed diferently over the millenia.

No you would need tens of thousands of years to develop the adapative change and no way do they all stay in the same place for that long. Just a few miles is anough to take you away from altitude. Name one Kenyan or Ethiopian top elite whose recent ancestors came those areas but who was born at low altitude

ukathleticscoach wrote:

rukol wrote:

Not true.

Different tribes/ethnicities developed diferently over the millenia.

No you would need tens of thousands of years to develop the adapative change and no way do they all stay in the same place for that long. Just a few miles is anough to take you away from altitude. Name one Kenyan or Ethiopian top elite whose recent ancestors came those areas but who was born at low altitude

It takes ONE generation to get a favorable mutation, not tens of thousands of years. However the Ethiopians have been where they are for tens of thousands of years and they do have the best genetic adaptations of all.

It takes time for the favorable genetics to saturate the population.

No one even mentioning many of the other factors that play a large part in the development and success of the Ethiopians and Kenyans. Lifestyle - they are walking or running everywhere throughout childhood and adolescence. The amount of miles they log back and forth from elementary, middle school, and high school is hugely significant. Various estimates of 700 to 2000+ miles per year(at altitude no less) just going back and forth to school. Few cars, bikes etc. run or walk are the main options. The poverty level and motivation to escape that environment is one of the main training factors over the past 25+ years as prize monies or collegiate scholarships have become increasingly more available. Simplicity of lifestyle - no xbox, tv etc. Basic but solid diet with out many of the vices that the average American or European diet includes.

I think everyone should compete in their own division and that way everyone can get a gold medal no matter how slow they are.

In other words, perpetuating the thought that everyone should get a medal.

There are only two things that should matter in a race:

1. Who is the absolute fastest?

2. How fast did you run?

Anything else is trying to split the pie up so that "everyone" wins. We already do this with gender and age groups. News flash: old people and women will never be as fast as younger males. What do you expect when you join a running race?