Truly incredible: Top Japanese HS team has 7 man avg 5k pb of 14:08

It is interesting that none of these Japanese men and women end up at an American University to run. Can anyone tell me why ?

I do remember that in the mid-90s, that George Mason U's women had a Japanese Olympic long jumper on their team.

My theory on their high mileage training programs is that they, not genetics, are responsible for their massive quality depth, especially at half marathon and marathon, and their total absence of world-beaters. If you took many of those runners with the big bases in their early 20s and you put them on a program with a lot more fast tempos and trackwork, while sustaining significant but lesser mileage, you'd see sub-13, sub-27, sub 1hr, sub-2:06.

I think there are two main reasons.

1. The glory is in Japan. For them to run at a famous running university is the ultimate goal. To run at Oregon or Colorado etc. would have little meaning for them.

2. Coming out of high school they wouldn't have the English skills to attend an American university. I would even assume that their skills are lower than the average Japanese student because they have been concentrating on running instead of academics.

Not possible wrote:

The Japanese have 7 boys on a team, not 5, and the U.S. is not going to have 7 guys running the 2 mile equivalent of 8:50 on one team.

We're talking about AVERAGE, that means only 3-4 would run 8:50 or better

The Illinois state champ averaged 14:52 for the 3-mile XC course. I would think you could run a 5K on the track in about the same time as the 3-mile XC (very fast course) - Chris Derrick ran 13:52 on the course and 13:55 on the track in the spring.

Come on, no one believes these kids are doping?

The amount of Japanese UFC fighers that have been busted on the sauce is very high.

Japan and PEDs have a wonderful relationship.

The Japanese Corporate team do control their diets, hand-feed them, provide them all the vitamins, minerals, and supplements for them to consume. Very cult-like. I remember my buddy Jeff Schiebler talking abou this.. they ate and took whatever was given, no questions asked.

What's the Japanese HS record for 5000? Of course for Japanese nationals, not Kenyan.

Lack of talent wrote:

Me thinks Japanese runners just don't have leg speed. All the high mileage training in the world won't change that. It's nice to run 14s for 5k but to run sub 13 you need good basic speed. As a general population - they lack that. Maybe there are some outliers but I haven't seen them.

And as they say you're either born with leg speed or you're not.

But the more important question is whether they have sufficient leg speed velocity.

SPEED IS SPEED, MORON!

Mcmillan calculator rates 14:08 as equivalent to 1:49.7/4:04/8:39/29:21/1:05/2:17

Those estimates seem very much on the mark to me in quality. In most years, you will not find any American high schools with the top runner at 8:39 (2M). You'd have to put together an all-time American high school team to get an average better than 8:39 2M, e.g. Verzbicas-8:29 (but not an American citizen), German-8:34, Nelson-8:36, Lindgren-Ritz-Solinsky-Pre at 8:40 or within a few seconds of that. Lindgren and Ritz ran 13:44 in high school, and Rupp ran 13:37, so they were certainly good for sub 8:39 2M in the same shape with the same fields. Webb, who ran 8:45 2M indoors essentially by himself, also could have gone well under 8:39 2M the day he ran 3:53, had he entered a 2M at Pre instead. That gives you an idea of just how good 14:08 is as a 7 man hs average.

Actually Japan has two gold medals from the Olympics in the marathon:

Naoko Takahashi - 2000

and

Mizuki Noguchi - 2004

Breaking news at 11 wrote:

What's the Japanese HS record for 5000? Of course for Japanese nationals, not Kenyan.

I think it is this guy. 13:39.87 @ age 18.

Girls chart has 4 girls 9:01 or faster in the 3K. By this measure Japan has 4 girls as fast as Mary Cain and Alexa were last year in the 3K. If true, the mind boggles.

survey says wrote:

Sally V wrote:

So many outstanding prepsters but so few world class times for older Japanese. What happens to them?

These kids aren't older yet.

Japanese don't dope. As they get older they realize that if they were to be successful at the sport and compete against the dopers, which is pretty much the rest of the planet, then they would have to make a deal with the devil. They have too much honor for that, so they find other jobs.

LetsRun.com wrote:

The Japanese HS champs are this weekend and Brett Larner breaks it down for you here:

http://japanrunningnews.blogspot.com/2014/12/toyokawa-girls-looking-to-repeat-sera.html

Take a look at the boys PB chart here:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fWOYwP5WSxE/VJOSlIVivjI/AAAAAAAAGt8/ikDho-UG0WM/s1600/%E3%83%92%E3%82%9A%E3%82%AF%E3%83%81%E3%83%A3%2B1.png

and the girls chart here:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rXJ02bzaQkE/VJOSlBnKwqI/AAAAAAAAGtw/AJxfsQtMHvE/s1600/%E3%83%92%E3%82%9A%E3%82%AF%E3%83%81%E3%83%A3%2B2.png

Even if you take out the Kenyan from the top boys team, the 5 man avg would be under 14:20. What could a top US team average?

There have been a few U.S. H.S. teams who could average the one-mile equivalent of 14:20, but I don't think there has been any U.S. H.S. teams who could actually average 14:20 for a 5K, perhaps 14:40 at best. U.S. high schools simply don't focus on the 5K. Btw, H.S. distance running in Japan is about as big as basketball in the U.S., the best kids go to the best running schools and they are will trained for long distance. The Japanese junior teams are about equal to the U.S. junior teams, usually placing somewhere between 3-5, whereas the senior teams usually can't crack the top-10. - I guess that tells you the most important thing you need to know.

South, Eugene, Oregon

First off, MacMillan is useless for anything but road times. IAAF gives 14:08 = 8:52. Impressive as hell for seven guys, even if one is a 20-something Kenyan running 13:41.

None of those Japanese girls is a threat to Cain in any way, she was 3 seconds faster as a junior in HS, with a withering kick, and Alexa would beat them as well.

Let's look at the W Jr champs from last summer:

M5000 Final:

9 1535 Colby GILBERT USAUSA 14:09.98

10 153 Morgan MCDONALD AUSAUS 14:10.08

11 932 Kazuto KAWABATA JPNJPN 14:10.14

I've never even heard of Colby Gilbert, and he beat the top Japanese representative. Are the Japanese running all these kids in an Ekiden instead?

W3000 Final:

1 Mary CAIN USAUSA 8:58.48 PB

2 992 Lilian Kasait RENGERUK KENKEN 9:00.53

3 988 Valentina Chepkwemoi MATEIKO KENKEN 9:00.79 PB

4 960 Nozomi Musembi TAKAMATSU JPNJPN 9:02.85 PB

5 582 Etagegn WOLDU ETHETH 9:06.42

.......

11 963 Nao YAMAMOTO JPNJPN 9:24.41

12 1250 Maria Magdalena IFTENI ROUROU 9:26.04 PB

13 1515 Nataliia SOLTAN UKRUKR 9:26.58 PB

14 994 Darya MASLOVA KGZKGZ 9:30.28

15 1600 Stephanie JENKS USAUSA 9:31.47

A little better for the Japanese girls, but still not overwhelming.

Running Formula reader wrote:

Breaking news at 11 wrote:

What's the Japanese HS record for 5000? Of course for Japanese nationals, not Kenyan.

I think it is this guy. 13:39.87 @ age 18.

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/japan/hidekazu-sato-200344#progression

Looking at the late October date for that 13:39, it looks like it would be his freshman year in college.

OP

You are naïve. Like Al Sal, it is well known that the Japanese will do "anything" it takes to be better, faster and stronger. they want soooo bad to be able to compete in the world of sports with the big boys, that their country has the same policies as the middle east on EPO and other drugs to enhance performance - they have none.

In short, the Japanese are cheats.

there are all these great domestic results and yet time and time again, the Japanese can't perform well outside of Japan. Even just going to China or Korea for a marathon will cause them to run poorly. I don't understand it. They'll get better for a time with a couple top 10s in New York or London and then drop back down again.