How hard is a 4:59 mile for a Masters runner? How many miles per week?

mile racer wrote:

formative years? I started running late.

5k pr is terrible 19:10. 10k pr is better 37:50( faster 5k en route).

never ran an 800 or 400 "race". Struggle with 80 seconds for 400 repeats. Never done them under 75 socends.

5:25 is recent and was off 35mpw.

Your MPW total seems fine. Would not hurt to get it up around 40, but more importantly, you will need . . .

- at least one honest tempo/threshold run every 10 days or so. You can figure out what pace is best for you. Focus on effort 1st and don't worry about the time.

- some hill repeats @ decent effort (don't overdo it) - 200-300 meters - jog recovery back down. 6-10 reps.

- long run (8-12 miles)

- other runs should be med to easy

That's all I would do for the winter. Watch yourself on the hills and do them on dirt/grass. Nothing too hard to start. When you get into the season, you can start doing some faster stuff on the track. Oh, and race some 5ks - they will help a lot. No 19:10 stuff either; race them like you mean it.

When you get into the season, 600s, 400s and 300s will be the norm, along with some 200s for sharpening. And you will need to race a bunch of miles (5-6) to realize your best time.

You need to work on your general fitness first. You won't break 5 minutes if you can't get near 18:00 for 5k. Follow the previous posters advice till you get close to an 18 minute 5k and then you can start working on the speedwork you'll need. Take a look at the Daniel's 1500-3000 workouts to get an idea of the quality and pace you'll need but your 400's will have to be under 70 to break 5:00. Good luck!

So the longer the race the better you run.

You need to work on your speed and strength.

This worked for me. Lots of hill repeats in the early phases of training and short 200m, 400m or 600m repeats with relatively short jogged recoveries later on. Second quality workout tempo or fartlek in the early stages, pyramid or ladder workouts later on. Lots of workouts at mile race pace. Long runs of 2 hours plus.Slightly downhill strides after recovery runs focusing on turnover. Occasional 100m fast, 100m slow as many times as possible to assess progress.

Actually, his 5:25 is better than his 19:10. He should be able to run a faster 5k.

CSU-1959 wrote:

Actually, his 5:25 is better than his 19:10. He should be able to run a faster 5k.

Yes, he already indicated his 5k is soft. How does the 5:25 compare to his 10k time?

Grand masters runner. Mid 50's.

I can break 5 min for one mile, and one mile only.

I run 50-60 miles per week. At this age, I run around 18:20/30 5k

more helpful... wrote:

CSU-1959 wrote:

Actually, his 5:25 is better than his 19:10. He should be able to run a faster 5k.

Yes, he already indicated his 5k is soft. How does the 5:25 compare to his 10k time?

37:50 10K = 5:15 Mile (and 18:13 5K), according to McMillan.

runn wrote:

It's the speed you lose as you age.

Myth!!!

100 M55 11.44/9.58 = 1.19

400 M55 52.24/43.18 = 1.209

800 M55 2:03.7/1:41.91 = 1.213

1500 M55 4:12.35/3:26.00 = 1.225

5000 M55 15:29/12:37 = 1.227

I've posted this before but here is the fast old man

That was a jog for him, he ran sub 60 that year and 62 this year at 75. No excuses!

It's hard enough that I never did it. I ran 4:40, 4:42 x 2, 4:44, 4:45, 3x 4:47, etc., but never nailed 4:59. 4:43 and 4:46 eluded me also.

I was a longer distance guy in college, but managed a 4:07 mile PR. I'd routinely do 6 x 1 mile in 4:45ish.

What I can't believe is how hard 1x 1 mile in 4:59 is at age 43. I've stayed fit and still race respectably at 5-21.1k, but my all out mile time is brutal compared to my other race distances.

With a gun to my head, I could probably run 4:40-42....even though I can still run a 15:35 5k. Sounds strange,but it is true.

excellent view wrote:

elephino wrote:

I know a guy who is 230 lbs, 34 years old, and only started running a couple years ago. He only runs three times a week, has a detached hamstring and a dislocated hip, and he runs a 4:15 mile.

Not bad, but I know a 280 lbs., 57 year old guy with elephantiasis, cystic fibrosis, 2 hip replacements, and severe halitosis that just ran 4:08 off 15 mpw.

I knew this thread would go this route. Any other candidates?

if you dont work on speed, it goes away, so too does hip flexor flexibility.

as was said before, its fast 200's, 300's and 400's that you have to master and survive without injury that will tell.

a set of 6x300 with 100 jogs in 51-52 is the telling workout.

and the 400's do have to be under 70.

also a 3-4 mile tempo and a long run hour +, if not weekly, then in a ten day cycle.

it isnt easy to do and :25 seconds is a big jump.

i went 37 years running under 5 minutes for the mile, and then spent a year running long and neglecting speed, and couldnt get back to the edge with track workouts without tweaking something, and lost the streak.

good luck.

Reading through the thread, I'd say you need to work on running fast & relaxed.

Here's some ideas for your interval workouts, worked for me to go under 5:00 as a master.

Warmup: 2 - 3 mile slow run then 5 @ 80 meter stride, the first one a 6:00/mile pace and the last one @ 5:00 per mile pace, all as a warm up.

From there, design a variety of interval workouts, and run up to three per week.

For fast relaxed running, try a series of 200 repeats @ 35 seconds, with a half lap jog between. See how many you can do. If you do the workout a few times, they'll get quicker, and you'll do more repeats. Focus on relaxed rhythm. Yes you are working hard bu you are relaxed.

Another workout, don't forget the standard miler workout 8 - 10 x 400 at race pace with a lap jog between.

Other days, mix in some longer intervals too, 800s, 1000s, 1200s, with longer intervals. Gets you strong as heck.

Racing, plan a series of 3 - 4 mile races over a month or so. Once your racing legs get going, improvement comes. Rest properly before races. The latter races in your series will feel easier than the first couple, and you will be running faster.

I know this is obvious advice, nothing new. It worked for me. I could sink a mile under 5 minutes until I was 44 years old. The workouts are (easier) variations on what we did in a Div. 1 middle distance program at the dawn of time. Good luck!

Recognize that going from 5:25 to 4:59 is not going to be easy. 6.5 sec/lap is a burly jump up in effort.

1. Set some reasonable intermediate goals. Maybe 5:10 - 5:15 to begin, and go from there.

2. As many have noted, work on speed endurance. Reps of 200 to 800 at goal pace or faster.

3. In your case, I'd say begin with pure speedwork to become mentally and physically relaxed at 75 sec/lap and faster, and then proceed to speed endurance. Run some sets of 100-200-300-200-100 at 75 pace, whatever recovery you need to remain fluid at that pace.

4. Once you have that, begin more traditional mile workouts like 10x400 with 100m recovery, 3 x 800-400-200, 2-3x 1000-600 and 20x200.

Good luck!

funny, i won that race that Nolan ran the 4:25 in. I thought I did great at 4:21 as a masters and didn't realize until later that Nolan was that old. Great run by him.

Shaheed cut the volume on his 400's.

1 Gough, Joe M61 Ireland 2:15,08

2 Shaheed, Nolan M64 United State 2:16,18

How hard is a 3:59 mile for a Masters runner?

Holy crap, Lagat is 40.

Bernard Lagat:

" We do longer stuff now than before, like a 13-mile run, averaging 5:20 a mile. The first mile would be around 5:45, then getting faster as you go. We do tempo runs that are longer, too. I used to do a five-mile tempo run, but now I do eight. On the track, we incorporate things like 1,000m repetitions. When we come down to my speciality, which is like 700m reps and down, 600s, 500s, 300s, I am good. We try to replicate a race as much as possible, and make the rest even shorter. Hard workouts with a shorter rest is like a race."

I ran a 4:40 twice as a 42 years old and didn't think it was much of a big deal, but you guys are all making me feel like it was, so thanks - of course I also nearly broke 1:09 in a Half-Mary that same year. Ran a 4:50 solo in a workout at 42 years and was really disappointed. May be the last time. I can't do workouts anymore my Achilles is done. Jogger and weight-lifter now.

When guy like Meb are pushing toward 40 with 2:08 marathons, it's hard to get excited about them. I also find when you are as immature as I am, it's easy to forget how old you are! Haha