D2 nationals.....race length shortened due to horrible course conditions

If true, I can understand why people say runners are wusses. (Yes, I know that the athletes probably didn't make this decision.) Because things are "tough," they shortened the course? I think there's a bit of the Millennial-Entitlement Generation nonsense going on, too. Gross.

Or this decision, if true, may have had something to do with safety for the athletes. I do think the competitors are "entitled" to a fair and safe race.

At some point you cross from XC race to Tough Mudder if no action is taken. I think you protect the integrity of the race at some point so it does not become a complete joke. You want to identify the fastest runners, we measure ourselves in foot races from point a to point b not in circus side show competitions.

Men's and women's distance reduced? To what? Lots of rain in the area? We were there back in September and although I didn't tour the entire track I didn't notice any low spots IIRC.

The decision was made on Wednesday before the teams or coaches even arrived in Louisville and they had nothing to do with it. It came down from the NCAA and the parks people who maintain the course. It is now 5780m for women and 9560m for men.

It has rained non-stop this week.

I have seen, coached and competed on plenty of "muddy" courses, but as was pointed out this decision had to do with the integrity of the meet. The area that was cut off was a small loop about 600m into the race. You can imagine there would be serious issues at that stage running through a 200+ meter flood.

And just an FYI, DI did the same thing last year or the year before because of rain in Terre Haute and moved the start up past the area in question.

I raced last time nationals was there and the loop in question, roughly 600 in, if the same course, was sloshy then and it was covered in snow. It's a really tight turn.

I can see it being an issue having seen some pictures of the lake that is currently Tom Sawyer park.

They haven't really shortened the race anyway because it's going to be so slow.

A coach who is in Louisville. wrote:

The decision was made on Wednesday before the teams or coaches even arrived in Louisville and they had nothing to do with it. It came down from the NCAA and the parks people who maintain the course. It is now 5780m for women and 9560m for men.

It has rained non-stop this week.

I have seen, coached and competed on plenty of "muddy" courses, but as was pointed out this decision had to do with the integrity of the meet. The area that was cut off was a small loop about 600m into the race. You can imagine there would be serious issues at that stage running through a 200+ meter flood.

And just an FYI, DI did the same thing last year or the year before because of rain in Terre Haute and moved the start up past the area in question.

This is spot on - the NCAA DII Committee made the decision after seeing how much that short loop was holding water that early in the week - with a few more days of rain plus teams practicing on the course still yet to come. It wasn't worth including in part because it is so early in the race.

The NCAA rulebook allows for courses to be shorter than the standard distances so no adjustments were made to the rest of the course.

The LOC has workers doing everything they can to make the turns and hillier areas as safe as possible, but there is more rain coming through tonight...no matter how much they do the course is going to be really sloppy tomorrow.

I don't have too much of a problem with this decision as long as its not a mile or more short.

This stuff never would have happened 20 years ago. Unless it was high school cross country where they just make it a cross race on the roads.

I recall the 1985 D1 Regional race in Bloomington where the course was saturated and muddy. 400 meters after the start there was nearly a knee deep pond that quite a few guys wiped out running through,

If everybody has to deal with the same conditions then the best team will still win. Just deal with it.

Wow. More louisville people on here than I expect. Sitting in my house in the highlands right now listening to it pour at 11pm.

Ran around 530 in Cherokee and it was pouring too. Trails were a mess.

Personally I think it's lame to shorten the course. Just some mud.

Good luck to everyone tomorrow.

The portion they removed is the uh....we'll keep it clean and call it the "finger" at the top of the page. Instead of turning right and then making the left hand 180 turn they will just proceed straight to the top of the course and make a gentle left. So you can see it isn't a substantial amount of the course, but the men do hit it twice so their distance is reduced more than for the women's course.

And although it isn't knee deep, there is some ankle deep standing water in the dip/trough that runs at an angle right about 500m into the race (immediately to the left of the swimming pool on this map). That will make things interesting enough at the start of each race...

d3423 wrote:

If true, I can understand why people say runners are wusses. (Yes, I know that the athletes probably didn't make this decision.) Because things are "tough," they shortened the course? I think there's a bit of the Millennial-Entitlement Generation nonsense going on, too. Gross.

+1

Agree, likely a joint decision between the millennial generation (born 1981-1996) and the entitlement generation (aka the boomers, aka the worst generation, aka those responsible for the destruction of the USA, born 1946-1964). But to be fair, it's likely members of the entitlement generation calling the shots and making a bad decision. Typical boomers, screwing up things as usually. At least they're consistent.

Sfgrvhj wrote:

Wow. More louisville people on here than I expect. Sitting in my house in the highlands right now listening to it pour at 11pm.

Good luck to everyone tomorrow.

While I have a few of you locals tuned in...

I'm staying downtown and want to get a 5-6 miler in tomorrow morning before I head to the course. Is it worth it to do an out and back across the pedestrian bridge over the Ohio to the Falls of Ohio park and then back?

/threaddrift

George Atlas wrote:

I recall the 1985 D1 Regional race in Bloomington where the course was saturated and muddy. 400 meters after the start there was nearly a knee deep pond that quite a few guys wiped out running through,

If everybody has to deal with the same conditions then the best team will still win. Just deal with it.

You cited that some runners fell, some didn't and then jumped to the conclusion that his could have no factor in the outcome of the race?

This was the least logical post I have read in a while.

George Atlas wrote:

I don't have too much of a problem with this decision as long as its not a mile or more short.

This stuff never would have happened 20 years ago. Unless it was high school cross country where they just make it a cross race on the roads.

I recall the 1985 D1 Regional race in Bloomington where the course was saturated and muddy. 400 meters after the start there was nearly a knee deep pond that quite a few guys wiped out running through,

If everybody has to deal with the same conditions then the best team will still win. Just deal with it.

Incidentally, this stuff would indeed have happened 20 years ago. In the early 90s, if 100m+ of a course was flooded, they would have rerouted to avoid the flooded stretch.

Honestly, I don't understand people like you. Cross Country is a foot race on land. They have other races for the kind of nonsense that you seem to like. We have trail running, fell running, tough mudders, etc. Why you want to see several hundred runners aquajogging 600 meters into the race is beyond me.

Cross country is a foot race on land whatever shape that land may be on race day.

IAAF World Cross courses used to manufacture harder conditions by putting up hay bale hurdles.

You must be about 25 years old and never ran a high school cross race through a creek and up a muddy hill like I did 30 years ago.

2:30 am and the rain is coming in buckets. They might have to pick the highpoint and just do about 14 laps for the men and 8 for the women. It is a balmy 57 right now which is probably much warmer than expected.

Me and a buddy are going out there now

Good job, you were in danger of having a proper cross country race there

George Atlas wrote:

This stuff never would have happened 20 years ago. Unless it was high school cross country where they just make it a cross race on the roads.

Bullshit this stuff did/would happen back in the day. For example they shortened the 1982 d2 nationals course by a good bit because of snow.