I want to average 5:30s for a marathon

That varies pretty significantly from person to person. I ran a marathon at 6:00 pace and typically ran around 8:00 on my easy days.

What are your current PR's? This will probably take a couple years to even think about running sub 6 pace for a full marathon let alone 5:30's so you better have the motivation to train. I'd say for someone running 5:30's for the marathon your "easy days" should be between 6:45-7:00. But, don't think the way to go is to go out and run that pace fairly easily and call yourself in shape to run 5:30's. You need to have a aerobic pace that fits your current fitness.

206xcrunner wrote:

Also, I am curious in particular about the pacing of a normal training run. Reading through old posts here there seems to be a strong preference towards faster normal runs. If my goal is 530 pace, then should a normal non-workout and non-recovery run be in the 6:15-6:30 range?

^^Alberto salazar has said that when running a easy run, go 1:30 slower than your 5k pace. So for me my 5k pace would be let's just say 5 flat for each mile. I would be running my easy runs at 6:30 mile pace. To answer your question find out what your 5k pace would be then run on that guideline.

I've never found that rule to be very accurate. Usually, 2 minutes added rather than 1:30 added to 5k pace works best for me.

PR's are 15:10 and 32 flat on the track from a couple years ago. Half marathon PR is 1:13:01 from a hilly course in '12 off of XC training, not event specific fitness for the half.

I've found new motivation and am currently running 70ish miles a week at a pretty comfortable 6:40ish pace with the goal of developing a fitness base to begin a specific marathon training regiment. Goal marathon isn't until June, so I'm trying to gather as much info as I can. Aiming high trying to run 2:25, but I want to push myself.

As far as pacing, anything faster than what I'm doing now on an easy run I will certainly gradually transition into such work slowly over the next 2-3 months.

Very respectable times. Now I'm far from being very knowledgable about running so don't take my advice like it's gold. But one of your main goals should be to stay injury free. You have a good possibility of putting up a very good time with training. I'd say keeping upping the mileage and cycling weekly mileage and taking your easy days really with maybe one tempo a week. That's my advice, but look or try in get some good advice from runningart2004 or malmo.

Definitely depends on the runner.

I consider myself more of a "strength" runner (and my PRs pretty much back that) and I do most of my easy days ~7 min pace. I ran right at 5:30/mile during my first marathon and I was running my easy runs between 6:45-7:30 depending on how I felt. I think the easy runs aren't necessarily the important part, to me it is:

1) Mileage - get in high mileage, or what I consider "high mileage equivalent". When training for my first marathon I could only run 6 days a week and couldn't really double (due to prioritizing work over my running, so couldn't is probably too strong of a word). So while I only ran 75-85 it was on basically 6 runs a week.

2) Marathon specific workouts - Long tempos, hard long runs, progression runs, intervals with active rest. All very important (4X2 mile, 3X3 mi, 8 mi tempo, 20 mi progression runs)

OP, are you a slow twitcher or fast twitcher? That is, do you like to grind out long aerobic sessions or do you prefer short, fast hard stuff? Based on the 5k/10k PRs I'd say you're either fast twitcher, and/or are still a bit aerobically weak (ignoring the half - but including it strengthens argument for need of aerobic improvement and may struggle at full).

If you're a fast twitch type, your aerobic runs will be slower than an endurance oriented person.

That said, I'm a big fan of the progression run, start easy and go right down to 10k/5k effort for the last couple minutes. This type of run will build the endurance you need for any distance.

2 long runs a week are also good. #1 = 15% of weekly mileage, #2 = 20% of weekly mileage, for a person who runs 7 days/week (~17%/23% if you run 6 days/week).

good luck

I would say I might be more fast twitch than the average marathoner, but compared to other track guys I would usually thrive in longer aerobic efforts and get dusted in the faster work. 1500m PR is 4:03 for reference. Classic case of a mediocre DII guy who couldn't break barriers (4:00,15:00,32:00).

Thanks for all your suggestions, I really appreciate any input!

If you've ran those prs and feel better at distance than short distance then you should be able to run 5:30s...you're 1/2 just hasn't caught up.

I also did most of my distance runs at 6:45-7:15 pace in the building up to my 2:25 marathon. It's important to emphasize recovery after long, hard marathon workouts though, so don't worry too much about pace once you get in to the heart of your training.

I have never been a high mileage person but was able to run close to 5:30s off of 80 mpw and long, hard marathon pace workouts. For example, 5, 4, 4 miles @ marathon pace, 10 miles at MP at the end of a 20+ miler run, 2 x 7 mi @ MP, 13-16 @ MP.

Every runner is different, the reason I am replying is because your 5k and 10k PR’s are almost the same as mine and I was able to run sub 5:30 pace for a Marathon. I am more of a strength runner rather than a speed based runner. My PR’s are 15:18, 31:51, 1:09:35, 2:23:52.

Here is a typical week of training for the Marathon:

Monday- 8-10 miles easy on golf course, Tuesday- 2 mile warm up, 7 miles at 5:30 pace on bike path, 2 mile cool down, Wednesday- 15 miles easy on dirt trails, Thursday- 8-10 miles easy on grass fields, Friday- 2 mile warm up, 5 X 1 mile @ ~5:10 pace, 400m recovery, 2 mile cool down, Saturday – 10 miles easy on dirt trails, Sunday- 20-23 miles on road, first half at 7:00 pace, second half accelerate to ~5:40 pace by the last three miles. I have a job, so I can only run once per day, and usually around 85 miles per week.

OP, where did you run in college? Are you planning on Grandma's Marathon in June?

Based off your half, you need to up your mileage still. Don't worry about pace on recovery runs, just do what your body wants to run. I am a 2:17 marathoner with similar 5K & 10K PR's and I run my recovery days at 7-7:30 pace for a reference.

Great input Broken Arrow, I like how you structure your week.

Good luck.

It's a process.

My advice when it comes to easy mileage is that when you're far from a peak race, your "easy" mileage should generally be at a really decent clip. Your workouts, by contrast, will be nothing to sweat. As you get closer and closer to your peak race, your workouts get harder and harder (and eventually absolutely brutal), so your non-workout runs will necessarily get easier and slower.

Do one marathon a year, and spend the other half of the year doing distances between 10k and the half marathon. Get that lactate threshold higher so you have more headroom when you focus on the marathon.

On each successive marathon cycle, aim for 10% higher peak and average mileage, but listen to your body and compromise as necessary.

Also, a lot of it comes down to learning yourself as a runner. For what it's worth, your shorter PRs are similar to mine, but I've never done 5:30s for a marathon, nor do I think I have any realistic chance of doing so in the future with my fast twitch percentage. (Though I've been within spitting distance of that pace on a perfect day.)

I ran for Western Washington University in Bellingham, WA. Great place to live and run, truly an under-appreciated running town as the trail systems are incredible.

I feel I should mention my half PR is from my only serious attempt at the distance, though I was in great fitness for it as I was coming off a long XC season but with obviously 10K specific workouts. It was the Seattle half which isn't known for being a fast course. I mention that suggesting I think I could easily lower my half PR if I were to focus on it.

Really great feedback everyone, very encouraging especially to hear from people that had such similar PRs and got the results I am hoping for. Thank you all!

Goal Marathon is Mayor's Marathon in Anchorage, AK where I live/work now. Setting up to be quite the tall order to run high mileage with such little sunlight and snow/cold conditions. Hoping it will make me tough.

2:25 is a pretty tough goal for the first time you run a marathon. The best advice I can give is to run more miles. Your 5k is your best distance atm.

And for your first marathon cycle, don't put too much focus on the 2:25 barrier. Just focus on your training. Get in the miles, the long run. Some marathon pace work etc. At the end of the cycle you will have an idea what time you can aim for, it might be 2:28 or 2:23. First train, then think about the time.

800 dude wrote:

It's a process.

My advice when it comes to easy mileage is that when you're far from a peak race, your "easy" mileage should generally be at a really decent clip. Your workouts, by contrast, will be nothing to sweat. As you get closer and closer to your peak race, your workouts get harder and harder (and eventually absolutely brutal), so your non-workout runs will necessarily get easier and slower.

Do one marathon a year, and spend the other half of the year doing distances between 10k and the half marathon. Get that lactate threshold higher so you have more headroom when you focus on the marathon.

On each successive marathon cycle, aim for 10% higher peak and average mileage, but listen to your body and compromise as necessary.

this is really solid advice. in your mid 20s, you are still building toward peak marathon fitness, and really, the best thing you can do for yourself is to stay injury free and build strength upon strength upon strength. it's a long game of patience and work.

2:25 is a pretty lofty goal for having 32:00/1:13 PR's. More often than not those taking their first serious crack at the distance fail miserably. I would train for a 2:25 knowing that you are likely to see low 2:30's - or worse - on the finish line clock.

similar PRs (15:10, 31:18, 1:08) and similar goals.

everybody is different & responds well to (or feels beat down by) different training philosophies. my advice would be don't get caught in the mileage trap ("i need to run X miles a week or i can't run 2:25") or the fast easy runs trap if you don't respond well to high milage/feel like you don't recover when pushing the pace on easy days.

i ran my only HM to date with two weekly sessions:

1) Sunday long run

2) Wed (or Thurs if trashed from long run) long intervals on track at HM or 10K pace, 25-30 minutes total volume @ goal pace

i made the long runs very challenging, stuff like out 8mi to warm up, then back 8mi @ HM pace + 10s. or 20mi with the last 15mi @ M pace + 10-20s.

rest of my week was easy singles + tons of strides. SLOW runs. sometimes would go only 7-8 miles in 70min. but i would recover really well so I could nail the interval session & long run.

doing the hard long runs definitely prepared me for the what the last 3 miles of the HM felt like. they'd leave me trashed for a few days, but it was worth it. guess I'm a Canova disciple of some sorts in that I like to go long and hard, and then really recover with several days of really slow running. plan on taking a similar approach to marathon training for my debut.

good luck man. be patient, consistent, and stay healthy. and don't neglect any aspect of training to reach your full potential. i think it was Lydiard who said when asked which aspects of training are the most important - "all of them".