12k record on an obviously short course? Winner a complete unknown... yeah right

Let's face reality: Parker Stinson?

Aaron Braun set the pace, and the others were attempting to hang with him.

Aaron Braun :

"I tried to take those days very easy, as I knew that Thursday’s workout was going to be very challenging. I did the workout on the track, running 3 sets of 4 by 1k. I was given 2:15 between the reps, and 3 minutes between the sets. The goal was to be able to run the first set in 2:53, the second set in 2:52, and the third set in 2:50. I was able to hit the goal times of the first two sets, averaging 2:53 and 2:52; but then could only manage to average 2:51 average on the final set. I didn’t worry at all about missing that goal pace; as it was a very tough workout, and by half-way, a big part of me wanted to throw in the towel and call it a day. Luckily Coach Martin was there supervising the workout and giving me good feedback. Going into a lot of the reps in the second half of the workout, I would tell myself that that rep was going to be my last one; but then I would finish, and be really tired, but I knew I was capable of doing another. Eventually I decided the only way I wasn’t going to finish the workout was if I looked so bad that Coach Martin told me to stop. I’m not gunna lie, I even tried to look terrible a couple of times so that he would do just that, but he never did so I got the satisfaction of being able to complete this very tough workout. Afterwards he told me he thought that was the best workout I’ve done all season, and that it was very good for me to get some work done at closer to the pace that I will be trying to run at the 12k."

He did the work to run 4:35 pace.

Diego running a tempo a year and a half ago:

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/249744-Workout-Wednesday-Season-7/video/705796-5-mile-tempo-with-Diego-Estrada#.VGpF-Wd0weg

Seriously, look at that all-time list.. a bunch of great runners, but no where near the talents of Estrada, etc. Keith Hanson 10th all-time? Really?

Fast course, perfect conditions

vpw wrote:

Seriously, look at that all-time list.. a bunch of great runners, but no where near the talents of Estrada, etc. Keith Hanson 10th all-time? Really?

I hope you're joking?

formeralexandrianlegend wrote:

Fast course, perfect conditions

not quite perfect conditions. We'd have seen a sub 34 if it was in the 50s instead of 30s

Weeeew! Jared Ward still rockin' it!

Doesn't this work out to something near Hall's AR half marathon pace?

That's what armchair quarterbacks don't realize.

1) The 12km is a rarely run road distance, in historical USA road racing context.

2) A guy like Keith Hanson was not at the level of a guy like Parker Stinson.

3) People don't understand Brian Shrader's talent level. Spence was great, but not sure if he would've been a FL Finalist in high school.

Col wrote:

That's what armchair quarterbacks don't realize.

2) A guy like Keith Hanson was not at the level of a guy like Parker Stinson.

.

So true, so true! Keith Hanson was NCAA 10k champion in 1986. He was 3rd in NCAA cross in 1985 (12th in '84, 17th in '83).

Parker Stinson was a good high school runner from Texas at one time,

vpw wrote:

Seriously, look at that all-time list.. a bunch of great runners, but no where near the talents of Estrada, etc.

Sinclair, Spence, Virgin, Curp, Eyestone, Cummings, Meyer are legends of the sport. Nowhere near the talents of Estrada, etc? Are you facking serious?

Col wrote:

1) The 12km is a rarely run road distance, in historical USA road racing context.

I am going on this. I can't really tell if the historical races were big races, or lesser.

What are the chances of setting 12k records for a race that is never run? And even more, a race that elites rarely go into in top race shape? Could Steve Spence, Virgin, etc have run faster? Sure, but if it wasn't a 12k at a weird time in his schedule with zero prize money to run fast.

Another comment:

The course being short?! If anything the course LAST YEAR had potential to be short with all the crazy turns and crossings. It was out an back this year with approx. 5 turns during the entire race. Ain't much room to screw up that measuring.

Agree.

Also, I bet if you compare the 10m/15k/10k times for Braun etc to their 12k performances here, they line up just fine.

John Clendon wrote:

I am going on this. I can't really tell if the historical races were big races, or lesser.

What are the chances of setting 12k records for a race that is never run? And even more, a race that elites rarely go into in top race shape? Could Steve Spence, Virgin, etc have run faster? Sure, but if it wasn't a 12k at a weird time in his schedule with zero prize money to run fast.

John Clendon, you can't tell if those historical races were big races? Or there was "zero prize money to run fast"? Where do you come up with your material? Are you really that clueless about the history of the sport? Bay to Breakers and Bloomsday were two of the biggest races of the year. All of those races had prize money, AND appearance money, and lots of it. The Oktoberfest 12k in Itasca had two of the most expensive commodities of the day there -- Ingrid Kristensen and Rob DeCastilla. It was a very big deal.

Homer S. wrote:

Agree.

Also, I bet if you compare the 10m/15k/10k times for Braun etc to their 12k performances here, they line up just fine.

Braun ran a 1:01:38 half in 2014

I think the real issue is that most of the major 12k races (where these historical performances were done) were from incredibly hilly, slow courses like Bay to Breakers and Bloomsday. Spence surely would have run much faster on a flat course like Alexandria rather than hilly Bay to Breakers. Half of that old top 10 list was from two of the most notoriously hilly races in this country (B2B and Bloomsday).

vpw wrote:

Seriously, look at that all-time list.. a bunch of great runners, but no where near the talents of Estrada, etc. Keith Hanson 10th all-time? Really?

Huh!!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

Steve Spence won a bronze at the WC marathon beating Gelindo Bordin in the process.

Eyestone has won NCAA cross, 5k, and 10k titles. Not to mention previously held the American Collegiate record for 10k and has been on two Olympic teams.

Mark Curp held the WR at the half marathon.

Greg Meyer has won Chicago and Boston.

The list goes on.