Frank Shorter in the NYTimes basically convicts all of Kenya for doping

Right, everyone is doping, the Kenyans, Cierpinski, etc.

The only one who never doped was Frank Shorter.

Yeah right.

What about transfusions?

Shorter was an amateur cheat. Lifetime banishment was the punishment when he was taking money illegally.

At this point I think it is Kenya who is responsible of proving they are not doping, as a whole.

(Kenyans have not been found to possess different or superior physiology or genes than/to that of the westerners. Hard work is merely a myth. Who works harder than the Japanese female distance runners??!!)

How does such a brutal feat as a marathon event gets its record broken nearly every season? By season I mean each spring and each fall. And someone came out of nowhere could just made a new record, EASILY.

I admire Frank.

If the WMM group truly wants their participants to be drug-free then they will take his idea and implement it.

If they only want fast record-breaking times in order to generate interest in their marathons then they will figure out a way to avoid implementing Mr. Shorter's idea.

cash cheats out! wrote:

Shorter was an amateur cheat. Lifetime banishment was the punishment when he was taking money illegally.

I was about to post the same basic thing.

The Shorter fan-boys will all come on here an tell you how that is "hardly the same thing." But, it isn't. Frank--and his fans--rationalization of his own cheating rests upon the identical fallacies that drug cheats use to justify their cheating.

And, to be clear, I am all for performance enhancing drug use. Legalize it all.

Doping is the death of sport...and it's a slow, painful, and ugly death.

Money should not be paid out for two years after a win. If the winner gets caught doping in those two years, the money should not be paid out at all.

This will give incentive to the race organizations to catch the dopers - and thereby save their own prize money.

Well, you can have your own league of competition. I'm not against PED use if there are 2 leagues like in body building, one for clean sport and the one in which competitors are allowed to use drugs.

Mundus Vult wrote:

cash cheats out! wrote:

Shorter was an amateur cheat. Lifetime banishment was the punishment when he was taking money illegally.

I was about to post the same basic thing.

The Shorter fan-boys will all come on here an tell you how that is "hardly the same thing." But, it isn't. Frank--and his fans--rationalization of his own cheating rests upon the identical fallacies that drug cheats use to justify their cheating.

And, to be clear, I am all for performance enhancing drug use. Legalize it all.

Vincente wrote:

I admire Frank.

Really?

"I probably violated nearly all these [amateur] rules."

-September 1975 at the President's Commission on Olympic Sports

When threatened with a lifetime ban by the AAU, Shorter backtracked and claimed he was "speaking hypothetically".

Frank then went on to with a silver medal in the '76 games.

So, basically, you admire an admitted cheat and liar who should stole a medal in the '76 games because now he has the courage to come out hard against cheating?

oodle wrote:

Well, you can have your own league of competition.

I'm not against PED use if there are 2 leagues like in body building, one for clean sport and the one in which competitors are allowed to use drugs.

Fine, as long as my league gets the Olympics.

yes.

Mr. Shorter only accepted cash because it was his profession.

Similar to an artist accepting money when a patron buys one of his paintings.

He never injected drugs into his body to increase his endurance.

Granted, he may not have known how to do it or the technology may not have been available to somebody who was not state supported such as Mr. Cierpinski.

full disclosure: I am biased toward Frank as his 1972 marathon victory was inspiring enough to get me hooked on the sport. Who can ever forget the imposter coming into the stadium before Frank?

If NYRR and BAA would be serious about anti doping, they'd stop inviting all Kenyan and Ethiopian runners until they implemented OUT OF COMPETITION testing in Africa.

What would the impact be? A few less no-names and American wins. Hard to argue against...

Vincente,

Frank Shorter, by his own admission, violated the rules of amateur athleticism. This allowed him to train more (because he didn't have to work) and to recover more (because he didn't have to work). He cheated. Maybe, everybody cheated, but that doesn't make it "right." The rules may have been ridiculous (just like the drug rules are ridiculous) but Frank cheated.

Please stop rationalizing his cheating. I was incredibly inspired by Lance's recovery from cancer and his Tour victories. But, you no-talent ass clowns have taken that away from me. All you Shorter fan-boys should see you idol fall as well.

Thanks.

Mundus Vult wrote:

oodle wrote:

Well, you can have your own league of competition.

I'm not against PED use if there are 2 leagues like in body building, one for clean sport and the one in which competitors are allowed to use drugs.

Fine, as long as my league gets the Olympics.

Well, you can have your own Olympics too, if you like.

I would like to see two leagues in competition at the same time and just to see how much pharmaceutics has advanced in human history, provided the clean league/Olympics being real clean.

oodle wrote:

Well, you can have your own Olympics too, if you like.

I would like to see two leagues in competition at the same time and just to see how much pharmaceutics has advanced in human history, provided the clean league/Olympics being real clean.

Ahh, I am picking up what you are laying down and I like it.

My 100m final runs in 9.67 with 8 guys under 10 flat. Yours is won 10.3. Then we see who draws a bigger audience?

While we are at it, we should start professional football, baseball and basketball leagues so the fans can see what the NFL would look like without drugs. (Hint: not entertaining).

Shorter said that he had a quick fix to doping in the sport, though, and that for many years, he had been advising the marathon group to use it. In his view, the World Marathon Majors should mandate that any elite runner in its races be in the marathon group’s own registered testing pool.

An accredited antidoping agency would then test those athletes seven or eight times a year out of competition to ensure that those marathoners would be clean and that the races would be fair, he said.

“If you’re paying $100,000 for an appearance fee, why not spend $5,000 on somebody to make sure they aren’t doping?” Shorter said. “If they would have listened to me years ago, maybe they wouldn’t be embarrassed right now about their big winner.”

__

makes sense to me

agip wrote:

makes sense to me

Really? Because passing a drug test makes you clean?

Have you read how ARod passed his tests? He simply used mid-stream urine to avoid detection. That's it.

Passing a drug test means nothing.

Texas Lone Star wrote:

If NYRR and BAA would be serious about anti doping, they'd stop inviting all Kenyan and Ethiopian runners until they implemented OUT OF COMPETITION testing in Africa.

What would the impact be? A few less no-names and American wins. Hard to argue against...

How many no names win NYC or Boston these days?

Texas Lone Star wrote:

If NYRR and BAA would be serious about anti doping, they'd stop inviting all Kenyan and Ethiopian runners until they implemented OUT OF COMPETITION testing in Africa.

And Rita Jeptoo's positive came from what kind of test?

Mundus Vult wrote:

agip wrote:

makes sense to me

Really? Because passing a drug test makes you clean?

Have you read how ARod passed his tests? He simply used mid-stream urine to avoid detection. That's it.

Passing a drug test means nothing.

people caught by drug testing:

Rita Jeptoo

the kenyan guy who got busted for 'roids

Lance Armstrong

Regina Jacobs

Mary Decker

Half the freaking peloton at the TDF

Asafa Powell

many other Jamaicans

Eddy H

Shubokhova

But it won't catch everyone, no. But it is the fear of being caught that would reduce drug use. And give people the impression that they can win without drugs.