Apologies to Greg LeMond

LeMond is a jealous old man. He is like any other once-was-a-star athlete: he cannot stand that someone might be faster than he was.

Sure Lance took advantage, but in a LeMond vs Armstrong drug-free race, Armstrong wins.

That is an awesome video. I just watched it on Netflix recently. I remember it well from that time. It's nice to see the issues reflected upon 20+ years later.

I've lined up against Greg. I consider it a great honor. (OK, it was a XC ski race and not on a bicycle) but it is still a highlight of some of my many races.

Lemond is owed apologies from many people and organizations. Father time has proven him correct. He knew of what results a world class cyclist was capable. He also knew, and said that Lance's performance was "unbelievable". If only we hadn't been so busy hero-worshiping, then we might have actually listened to him.

It was no different in MLB. Records which had stood for 50+ years were no being broken, by not one, not two, but multiple players all at the same time.

Any one who thinks the marathon WR times are continuing to fall based on better training is guilty of wearing the same rose colored glasses.

So what is the pinnacle of training and human capability?

Not a Lance fan, and not a LeMond fan either. Impressed by his accomplishments, no doubt, but the guy is a bit of a tool.

The 30 for 30 was good except they really copped out at the end when they talked about how LeMond was sure to win more tours but then....*dramatic music*...EPO!!! Which would have been an okay accusation to make, but they talk about the rise of EPO and just keep showing/talking about Armstrong, as if he was the reason Greg never won again, even though he didn't win his first TdF for 7-8 years after Greg's last win. If you are going to say he stopped winning because of EPO at least have the sack to call out Big Mig.

Yes I realize that Greg didn't make the film and so the 2nd paragraph was just venting. His personality still rubs me the wrong way.

Greg should have won 6 tours.

The 3 he won.

The 1 he let hinault win.

The 2 he missed due to the hunting accident.

...and the ones he could've won if EPO didn't take over the peleton at the end of his reign.

To those who think Lance would've beat Greg if the two were racing at similar times, no way.

I see similarities in the US Postal (insert Banesto, Astana, Sky, etc.) years and the current state of distance running.

fan of US distance running wrote:

Greg should have won 6 tours.

The 3 he won.

The 1 he let hinault win.

The 2 he missed due to the hunting accident.

I was going to make the same exact post - good thing I checked first.

And yes, EPO did enter the tour exactly as LeMond finished. Analysis has shown that tour winners are usually around 410 Watts or so. Then Indurain won 5 at 455 watts in the early, pre-testing EPO era. Then Lance won 7 at about 430 watts.

I was also glad to see that LeMond has a line of bicycles again. (New model orders being fulfilled just last month...I think.) The line is more high-end and will not include the more affordable models that were available when LeMond was associated with Trek, but it's still a nice development.

This. Cycling is the most hypocritical sport. Lemond calls out Lance yet is buddy buddy with Miguel indurain in front of the media. I hate it. People are human, people make mistakes. But I struggle to wrap my head around why some are shamed and others just forgotten or overlooked. I just signed a contract to race domestically and in Europe. I am not friends with any known dopers or have to ride to support any. Will be interesting to see if that changes. I hope not. If I do then I'm a hypocrite, or am I just trying to keep a job and live this dream.

What would make All of this nonsense easier is if you dope and get caught- lifetime. Then no one will ever be forced to devalue themselves.

Congratulations on gaining your contract. It's a dog eat dog sport, but that doesn't mean you can't maintain your dignity.

What are your aims? To be a winner or a domestique or somewhere in between, serving an apprenticeship until you are in a postition to call a few shots?

I raced in Europe in the late-80s, during my last year as a junior after graduating HS. Then I learned about girls and having fun and that led to not wanting to race anymore. Years later, I tried my luck at Masters racing, but doping is rampant there too, so I decided to run, mostly because it was something I wasn't very good at in comparison. Heck, even if I doped in running it wouldn't make me more than a local hotshot in a small running community, whereas in cycling I could compete at the national level. I think cycling, at the international level, is finally turning around with Cookson. Yes, there are individual riders, and teams, that will still do whatever it takes, but I think it's better now than it has been in quite a long time. Best of luck.

All of this is nonsense wrote:

This. Cycling is the most hypocritical sport. Lemond calls out Lance yet is buddy buddy with Miguel indurain in front of the media. I hate it. People are human, people make mistakes. But I struggle to wrap my head around why some are shamed and others just forgotten or overlooked. I just signed a contract to race domestically and in Europe. I am not friends with any known dopers or have to ride to support any. Will be interesting to see if that changes. I hope not. If I do then I'm a hypocrite, or am I just trying to keep a job and live this dream.

What would make All of this nonsense easier is if you dope and get caught- lifetime. Then no one will ever be forced to devalue themselves.

You really shouldn't struggle with that. It is ALWAYS about the coverup rather than the initial crime. Lance viciously attacked many, MANY people to protect himself. With some of them, he basically destroyed their lives. Many of them were huge Lance supporters until they learned the truth. THEN he destroyed their lives to protect his own.

That is why he is scum.

That is why his is hated.

That is all.

Former Lance Fan wrote:

Count me in as a former Lance fanboy who always criticized LeMond for being not only the epitome of jealousy and sour grapes, but also for being kind of a mentally unstable whacko.

Seems like a spot on assertion.

The fact that Lance used PED's doesn't change how LeMond came off as a washed up jealous stalker.

Great athlete in his day, though.

Lemond is the Man wrote:

Any one who thinks the marathon WR times are continuing to fall based on better training is guilty of wearing the same rose colored glasses.

nonsense. Geb, a 3k/5k/10k specialist, who could run a blazing fast mile (the point: marathon was NOT his best distance) ran 2:03 when old and at the end of his career. Clearly if he had focused on the marathon at an earlier age, when he was closer to his peak abilities, he could have run at least nearly a minute faster, i.e., very low 2:03's at least.

So it is shocking that a few guys who are marathon specialists (the marathon is their best distance), who are also supremely talented, can run as fast or slightly faster at the marathon?? That shouldn't be shocking at all. Even at his best distances, Geb could be beaten or severely challenged by several others (bekele, Komen, Tergat, El G at 5k if he had made the move sooner). So of course one would expect a few to match or beat him at the marathon (and again: Geb in his prime, focusing on the marathon, could have certainly run low 2:03's.)

So again: why so shocking that a new generation of marathon specialists running the race at their peak can run a little faster than him??

Oh, right, Geb is a lifetime doper too, is that your explanation?

Greg was the victim of a character smear campaign by Armstrong, no two ways about it.

Greg wasn't a bitter and jealous old man, he was threatened and had his business undercut for not toeing Lance's PR line. He dared to tell the truth about Ferrari, that he was a blood chemist who didn't know what a power meter was.

Greg was wronged and is due apologies.

Too many cyclists drank the koolaid. they all stood up and supported Lance, while privately telling my wife and I that "all professional cyclist dope.."

Lance had it all, a larger set of lungs than normal, a larger heart than normal. Heck, he is the Barry Bonds, another person who would have made the HOF without cheating.

Ohio Bowling wrote:

Too many cyclists drank the koolaid. they all stood up and supported Lance, while privately telling my wife and I that "all professional cyclist dope.."

Lance had it all, a larger set of lungs than normal, a larger heart than normal. Heck, he is the Barry Bonds, another person who would have made the HOF without cheating.

I don't actually blame Barry Bonds. His biggest sin is being an unlikeable jerk, not PEDs. The fact was that Bonds was the best player in his generation and a top 10 (perhaps even top 5) player of all time. Then a bunch of juicers started beating him. He became the 10th best player in his era, until he started juicing too.

By contrast, Lance was the one who escalated PED use in cycling by creating the most sophisticated doping system ever. He was a tremendous natural talent, but we need to keep in mind who is the aggressor and who was essentially defensive.

Thank you! And it's been such a fast wild ride since leaving track/xc after college, that I honestly can't fully assess my goals. I will have opportunity this year. I would say Philly and Pro road nationals will be my focus. KOM competition/breakaway/technical uphill finishes, will end up being my specialty. Not the greatest flat TT guy. But learning to race in Europe will be fun. Like you said- dog eat dog. So if I ever make it to Pro Tour that would be a lifetime dream, but I'm realistic and understand the talent that takes.

Not really a man. I think you misunderstood me a bit. The OP was talking about Lemond and how he hated on Lance. I fully realize that Lance was not only a doper but malicious. Which is why he is hated by many. But if you're going to shame one for doping- why not shame them all? I'm not supporting Lance by any means, but I struggle to understand the hypocrisy of being friends with some but hating others.

Are some of the dopers, really good guys? Like a guy you would want as a neighbor? Yeah some! Are some bike racers who have never doped- awful human beings? Yeah some! That's what makes everything so convoluted. Some fans say," everyone did it". (Not realizing the domestic/super talented that never got that opportunity because of it) And some fans hate all dopers. Which makes the sport broken. Some clean pros, ride for past dopers. That confuses some fans, while other fans fully support it. I realize people make mistakes, and we as Americans are quick to forgive. Which is great. But it hurts the sport and a lot of people in the process.

I would be really interested to see how everyone else feels about this.

Send me an email:

holmedale123@yahoo.co.uk

I am super busy, so I won't reply immediately but I can help you get a foot in the door, the drug free way.