Canova: "By two more marathons, [Bekele] will be under 2:03"

the 2008 bekele...maybe

I think everyone views this guy as the 2008 version of himself - fact is, based on his last couple years of performances... he is just another east african. No better, no worse.

There must be 30 guys all in the same general bucket and he's one of them. I just don't see any reason to think he is better than anyone else anymore.

agip wrote:

the 2008 bekele...maybe

I think everyone views this guy as the 2008 version of himself - fact is, based on his last couple years of performances... he is just another east african. No better, no worse.

There must be 30 guys all in the same general bucket and he's one of them. I just don't see any reason to think he is better than anyone else anymore.

As usual, agip, you don't know what you're talking about. Bekele out kicked Farah (Farah's main strength). He then ran 2:05 by himself in his first marathon. That is far from "just another East African".

Seriously everyone saying "his last few performances show he is just avg" must have an IQ lower then their age.

He ran 2:05 LOW in his first ever marathon. Let that sink in.

How many people in the world have ever ran faster in their debut? oh right, the WR holder and that is it.

AVERAGE.

agip wrote:

the 2008 bekele...maybe

I think everyone views this guy as the 2008 version of himself - fact is, based on his last couple years of performances... he is just another east african. No better, no worse.

There must be 30 guys all in the same general bucket and he's one of them. I just don't see any reason to think he is better than anyone else anymore.

I can't wait until he shuts up the doubters. He's never been "just another East African" despite his injuries and return to fitness. He practically solo'd 2:05 and it looked like a jog despite the little hitch that developed late. He outkicked 3:29 Farah.

Does anyone else remember him dismantling everyone? His cross prowess? Think he's some pretender that can't make it in the marathon? Look, Kimetto is extraordinarily talented. So was Wanjiru. But KB is still the GOAT and it will translate to the roads.

odok wrote:

agip wrote:

the 2008 bekele...maybe

I think everyone views this guy as the 2008 version of himself - fact is, based on his last couple years of performances... he is just another east african. No better, no worse.

There must be 30 guys all in the same general bucket and he's one of them. I just don't see any reason to think he is better than anyone else anymore.

As usual, agip, you don't know what you're talking about. Bekele out kicked Farah (Farah's main strength). He then ran 2:05 by himself in his first marathon. That is far from "just another East African".

that outkick was on the roads, right? was it a half marathon? My memory isn't great on that one - clear it up for me if you can.

Obviously, the half marathon is not Farah's event - he is nothing special at that distance - so outkicking him in that isn't worthy of note.

the solo 2:05 was good, no doubt. I think there are only 20-30 guys who could do that. Which is my point.

does it really matter that it was a debut? it's a factor but not a huge one.

To be fair the debut record for the marathon is 2:04...Just saying

898989 wrote:

odok wrote:

As usual, agip, you don't know what you're talking about. Bekele out kicked Farah (Farah's main strength). He then ran 2:05 by himself in his first marathon. That is far from "just another East African".

that outkick was on the roads, right? was it a half marathon? My memory isn't great on that one - clear it up for me if you can.

Obviously, the half marathon is not Farah's event - he is nothing special at that distance - so outkicking him in that isn't worthy of note.

the solo 2:05 was good, no doubt. I think there are only 20-30 guys who could do that. Which is my point.

does it really matter that it was a debut? it's a factor but not a huge one.

this.

Here is the list of debut marathons - bekele is 6th. hey, that's pretty good. But he isn't the GOAT. he is just another east african.

(I'm someone will say Boston was windy, Dubai was short, kimetto is the wr holder, etc. that still leaves a few other 2:05s)

Bekele = great

Bekele is not the GOAT anymore. Or at least he hasn't shown any goatness for many years.

- 2:03:06 Moses Mosop (KEN) Boston 2011

1 2:04:16 Dennis Kimetto (KEN) Berlin 2012

2 2:04:23 Ayele Abshero (ETH) Dubai 2012

3 2:04:32 Tsegaye Mekonnen (ETH) Dubai 2014

4 2:04:45 Lelisa Desisa (ETH) Dubai 2013

5 2:04:53 Bernard Koech (KEN) Dubai 2013

6 2:05:04 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) Paris 2014

7 2:05:27 Tilahun Regassa (ETH) Chicago 2012

8 2:05:30 Eliud Kipchoge (KEN) Hamburg 2013

9 2:05:50 Evans Rutto (KEN) Chicago 2003

10 2:05:54* Sammy Kitwara* (KEN) Chicago 2012

898989 wrote:

that outkick was on the roads, right? was it a half marathon? My memory isn't great on that one - clear it up for me if you can.

Obviously, the half marathon is not Farah's event - he is nothing special at that distance - so outkicking him in that isn't worthy of note.

Geb, Bekele, and Farah. Great race.

agip wrote:

this.

Here is the list of debut marathons - bekele is 6th. hey, that's pretty good. But he isn't the GOAT. he is just another east african.

(I'm someone will say Boston was windy, Dubai was short, kimetto is the wr holder, etc. that still leaves a few other 2:05s)

Bekele = great

Bekele is not the GOAT anymore. Or at least he hasn't shown any goatness for many years.

You make absolutely no sense. You say he's just another East African and that there are 30 others like him...but then go onto point out that he is the SIXTH fastest debutant. This is just basic math at this point. Do you think 6 and 30 are the same?

Just admit that you are wrong. Bekele IS the GOAT. Debuting in 2:05 and teasing Farah's kick are definitely considered showing goatness.

So 6th all time fastest debut on a course that is tougher than the others, in a decisive win, and that makes him just another East African?

odok wrote:

agip wrote:

this.

Here is the list of debut marathons - bekele is 6th. hey, that's pretty good. But he isn't the GOAT. he is just another east african.

(I'm someone will say Boston was windy, Dubai was short, kimetto is the wr holder, etc. that still leaves a few other 2:05s)

Bekele = great

Bekele is not the GOAT anymore. Or at least he hasn't shown any goatness for many years.

You make absolutely no sense. You say he's just another East African and that there are 30 others like him...but then go onto point out that he is the SIXTH fastest debutant. This is just basic math at this point. Do you think 6 and 30 are the same?

Just admit that you are wrong. Bekele IS the GOAT. Debuting in 2:05 and teasing Farah's kick are definitely considered showing goatness.

but you are saying 6th place makes him the GOAT? Where's the logic there?

In my defense, I'll say that you'll note that 9/10 of those top debuts have come in the last 2 years - clearly marathoners have upped their game - you can't compare 2004 marathoners to today's marathoners - today's are head and shoulders faster.

So he is 6th fastest of the current era, not of all time, really. And 6th fastest of the last 2 years does not a GOAT make. Very, berry good, yes. But goat? Really?

It's obvious that you're intentionally being inflammatory with the "average" label so I'll let it go. This is TrollRun after all.

Then who is GOAT and what are your criteria? You go out and set one WR in the marathon in a time when everyone seems to be doing it and that makes one the GOAT? One event. When the record has fallen how many times the past couple of years? And the greatest distance runner of all who is in prime marathon age is poised for contention but being discounted why?

12:37 / 26:17 / 10+ XC WC / 2:05:04 at first attempt is quite a resume.

2:05, Average.

2:05.

Average.

Two. Oh. Five.

Av-er-age.

Apple Guy wrote:

So 6th all time fastest debut on a course that is tougher than the others, in a decisive win, and that makes him just another East African?

6th fastest debut in the years 2012-2014. Is that so great?

And here are the winning times at Paris for the last 6 years:

2:05

2:05

2:05

2:06

2:06

2:05

Looks like a fast course to me, and makes Bekele look, um, ordinary.

odok wrote:

agip wrote:

the 2008 bekele...maybe

I think everyone views this guy as the 2008 version of himself - fact is, based on his last couple years of performances... he is just another east african. No better, no worse.

There must be 30 guys all in the same general bucket and he's one of them. I just don't see any reason to think he is better than anyone else anymore.

As usual, agip, you don't know what you're talking about. Bekele out kicked Farah (Farah's main strength). He then ran 2:05 by himself in his first marathon. That is far from "just another East African".

Outkicking Mo in a half-marathon, 2 months after he ran a 3:28 1500, at the end of a long season, really doesn't say much more than Bekele's endurance doesn't seem to be bad. The same can be said about many other east african marathon runners.

And there are several people who have debuted faster than Bekele.

agip wrote:

but you are saying 6th place makes him the GOAT? Where's the logic there?

In my defense, I'll say that you'll note that 9/10 of those top debuts have come in the last 2 years - clearly marathoners have upped their game - you can't compare 2004 marathoners to today's marathoners - today's are head and shoulders faster.

So he is 6th fastest of the current era, not of all time, really. And 6th fastest of the last 2 years does not a GOAT make. Very, berry good, yes. But goat? Really?

I didn't say 6th made him the GOAT. I said goatness.

What does your next paragraph even mean? He is 6th on the ALL-time debut list. That DOES mean all time. Not just of the past 2 years. It means ALL years. What does 2004 have to do with anything?

fan of US distance running wrote:

odok wrote:

As usual, agip, you don't know what you're talking about. Bekele out kicked Farah (Farah's main strength). He then ran 2:05 by himself in his first marathon. That is far from "just another East African".

Outkicking Mo in a half-marathon, 2 months after he ran a 3:28 1500, at the end of a long season, really doesn't say much more than Bekele's endurance doesn't seem to be bad. The same can be said about many other east african marathon runners.

And there are several people who have debuted faster than Bekele.

You're right though. Mo is shit-tier so let's forget about him for the sake of getting to the fvcking point.

The question is, given KB's rough streak, an apparent return to form with a fantastic debut for a 5/10k runner, and knowing damned well of what he is capable: How can anyone suggest the WR is out of reach?

Oh I get it, everything before 2012 is irrelevant now. Kimetto only has the 2012 to 2014 record. I am done with you.

And yes, if you followed the marathon you would know that Paris is not as fast as Berlin.

I'm not trolling - I honestly think he is not the same guy as the who you all really want him to be. Take off your rose colored glasses.

I have no idea who the GOAT is - but I do know that the 2014 version of Bekele has not shown anything to make him deserve that title.

I'm discounting him because he hasn't done anything spectacular for years and years and years.

if an ethiopian you have never heard of ran 2:05 at paris would you immediately label him the greatest marathoner on the planet? Of course not. For some reason you see the bekele name and think of his glory years and not the older, post-injury bekele.