Definition of "anaerobic capacity session"?

racing a 3000m would probably count as a VO_2 max session

as this corresponds to the time you can hold your VO_2 max.

To spend more time at 100% of VO_2 you might want to run

10*400m at that pace with short rest?????????

I think I would disagree on the importance of getting a precise definition of this term, especially in isolation without any context."Anaerobic" sessions target improving form at high speeds -- teaching your muscles and nerves how to run at high speed without form breaking down."Anaerobic" interval sessions approach this with fast workbouts, and long recovery intervals, allowing the next workbout to be done as fresh as possible, prolonging fatigue, and the breakdown in form, while allowing a high volume of running at high speed.Your examples might qualify under some definition, but are not the best "anaerobic" sessions:- 100m hill repeats with walkbacks won't replicate the form, speed, and turnover required in racing on the track- continuous efforts (1500m and 3000m races) run a higher risk of fatigue inducing form breakdown in the latter stages, compared to equal volumes of interval trainingThey might possess some "anaerobic" value, but these are valuable also for other reasons:- hill repeats build leg strength with increased resistance, with less injury risk- continuous efforts put all factors (aerobic, anaerobic, metabolic, mechanical, electrical, psychological, etc.) together in a race contextJust my inputs.

Skuj wrote:

Yes yes, I know about google. And my favourite running book talks about a pace that is 100-130% VO2 max pace for runs of 30sec to 3min blah blah blah.

Basically anything at 3000m pace or faster for 200m to 1000m hard runs might do it.

But what if I run hard 100m hill repeats with walkbacks? Does that qualify as an "anaerobic capacity session"?

What if I race 1500m or even 3000m? Can that fall within the definition of an "anaerobic capacity session"?

It's important to define this precisely. Thank you for your input, letsrun.

first thing: capacity vs. power or max. working capacity means you are doing high volume of work vs working max more closely resembles a single bout or a small volume of work. ex. 5x1000 at 5k RP or 8x600 at 3k RP are vo2 capacity. 3k race is vo2 max. Anaerobic capacity is just as you defined it. a 1500m race is anaerobic but not AN capacity. A 1500m race followed by 4-6x200 at 800m RP is AN capacity. 8x400 at 1500m RP is AN capacity.

Skuj wrote:

Yes yes, I know about google. And my favourite running book talks about a pace that is 100-130% VO2 max pace for runs of 30sec to 3min blah blah blah.

Basically anything at 3000m pace or faster for 200m to 1000m hard runs might do it.

But what if I run hard 100m hill repeats with walkbacks? Does that qualify as an "anaerobic capacity session"?

What if I race 1500m or even 3000m? Can that fall within the definition of an "anaerobic capacity session"?

It's important to define this precisely. Thank you for your input, letsrun.

You have your energy systems confused. 3k pace is for AEROBIC capacity a.k.a. VO2max (see earlier reply). Anaerobic capacity is developed through very fast short runs with complete recovery a.k.a. speed work.

I appreciate these inputs. Thanks.

100m runs with short recovery.....would that be anaerobic capacity? Do the recoveries need to be short to qualify?

Skuj wrote:

Yes yes, I know about google. And my favourite running book talks about a pace that is 100-130% VO2 max pace for runs of 30sec to 3min blah blah blah.

Basically anything at 3000m pace or faster for 200m to 1000m hard runs might do it.

But what if I run hard 100m hill repeats with walkbacks? Does that qualify as an "anaerobic capacity session"?

What if I race 1500m or even 3000m? Can that fall within the definition of an "anaerobic capacity session"?

It's important to define this precisely. Thank you for your input, letsrun.

I think you have the most accepted definition described above. speed you can maintain longer than 30 seconds, but cannot continue past 2-3 minutes. I guess you could say the window between all out sprints and aerobic capacity. The recovery for these i believe in dependent on how much rest you need in order to repeat the same pace and duration of the previous effort.

Reading is FUNdamental wrote:

Skuj wrote:

I appreciate these inputs. Thanks.

100m runs with short recovery.....would that be anaerobic capacity? Do the recoveries need to be short to qualify?

I'm sorry, but did you even read the replies? It was clearly explained that the type of session you desire requires COMPLETE recovery.

WTF are you talking about? 100s with long recovery is definitely NOT ancap.

Skuj wrote:

Reading is FUNdamental wrote:

I'm sorry, but did you even read the replies? It was clearly explained that the type of session you desire requires COMPLETE recovery.

WTF are you talking about? 100s with long recovery is definitely NOT ancap.

By definition, anaerobic capacity requires complete recovery. For you to suggest otherwise means you must have an alternative definition held by a minority, or you are ill- informed in training science.

coach k wrote:

Skuj wrote:

WTF are you talking about? 100s with long recovery is definitely NOT ancap.

By definition, anaerobic capacity requires complete recovery. For you to suggest otherwise means you must have an alternative definition held by a minority, or you are ill- informed in training science.

So Coe's many 200s with 30sec (ie partial) recovery is something other than anaerobic capacity?

Turns out this thread was a really good idea!! Ancap can be complete or partial recovery. But 100s with long recovery is something else.

Skuj wrote:

coach k wrote:

By definition, anaerobic capacity requires complete recovery. For you to suggest otherwise means you must have an alternative definition held by a minority, or you are ill- informed in training science.

So Coe's many 200s with 30sec (ie partial) recovery is something other than anaerobic capacity?

Turns out this thread was a really good idea!! Ancap can be complete or partial recovery. But 100s with long recovery is something else.

Yes. Anaerobic capacity, by definition, requires full recovery - never partial recovery. I recommend the book "Better Training For Distance a Runners" for more insight into this and specifically Coe's training.

Are you my troll? I'll trial you a couple more replies here.

That book is exactly where this came from. Most of Coe's sessions at 800-1500 pace were of the short recovery variety.

4x400m in 52 with 60sec rest.

15x200m in 28 with 30sec rest.

6x300m in sub 40 with 45 sec rest.

What do YOU call those sessions which fall into the Coe chapter on Anaerobic Capacity?

When talking anaerobic capacity, we are talking about recovery of the ATP system. A lactate level of 8-9 mmol is desirable. Complete recovery is measured in seconds rather than minutes.

Never mind, Skuja. This sounds like the legit Coach K.

Im glad I found this thread. You dont find too much of this stuff on the messageboards. I've always been curious about recovery time for 1500 or R pace workouts. Daniels really only talks about mile pace work with full recovery. I understand the purpose of this kind of workout. What he doesnt much talk about, but I see fairly often, are these kind of faster workouts (800,400,hill, etc) with limited rest. What exactly are these workouts for? Learning how to run with a lot of lactic? they certainly put hair on your chest if nothing else.

Certainly Not Skuj wrote:

Skuja you are debating with your long time troll, bud.

IP check indicates you are conversing with yourself.

Skuj wrote:

Are you my troll? I'll trial you a couple more replies here.

That book is exactly where this came from. Most of Coe's sessions at 800-1500 pace were of the short recovery variety.

4x400m in 52 with 60sec rest.

15x200m in 28 with 30sec rest.

6x300m in sub 40 with 45 sec rest.

What do YOU call those sessions which fall into the Coe chapter on Anaerobic Capacity?

Brutal.

off topic but, hey, great race yesterday.

"Anaerobic capacity" is a term utterly without meaning or merit. The conditioning benefit of any workout is specific to THAT WORKOUT.

anaerobic work with lots of recovery = anaerobic capacity

anaerobic work with short recovery = anaerobic power

both important, but one comes before the other in a cycle.