All of you negative Nancys are looking at this the wrong way. Instead of making up reasons why these elites should not train in Boston, ask yourselves why they are going there. Maybe, just maybe, they know more about this than you do.
All of you negative Nancys are looking at this the wrong way. Instead of making up reasons why these elites should not train in Boston, ask yourselves why they are going there. Maybe, just maybe, they know more about this than you do.
pipe dreamer... wrote:
Huh?? wrote:Why would it work then, but not now? The weather' the same.
becuase 2:12ish doesn't cut it anymore.
Bill Rodgers ran 2:09.
Boston ONLY cares about the Marathon. The glory days of Rodgers and Meyer and Joannie and Hodge and Fleming and the GBTC was because of how they did at the Boston Marathon.
Who is currently training in these groups in Boston that are capable of making a splash in the Marathon?
Not even a focus.
Boston Marathon is the Goal wrote:
Boston ONLY cares about the Marathon. ... Not even a focus.
Huh?
pipe dreamer... wrote:
I agree, this is nonsense. Some of the worst weather in the country for several months per year. It worked for the old time distance guys pounding out the long slow miles, not working these days, the times they are a changin.
Some years ago Knut Kvalheim posted here about what essentially was the rise and fall of Norweigan distance running. He said that in the "glory" years, the 70s and early 80s, there were no indoor tracks in Norway and because of the winter people spent many weeks just doing a lot of distance work at fairly slow paces mostly because they didn't want to fall on the ice and snow.
But then Norway got rich with the oil boom and nearly all municipalities built field houses and gyms that had really good indoor tracks. Runners began doing faster work all year round and cutting back volume. The bottom fell out.
That said, Boston is swarming with indoor tracks, big snowstorms are not terribly common, New Balance has been plowing the path around the Charles for a while now, the municipalities clear the snow quickly, and it's probably a good thing to have a time of the year to work on mileage.
Boston Marathon is the Goal wrote:
Boston ONLY cares about the Marathon. The glory days of Rodgers and Meyer and Joannie and Hodge and Fleming and the GBTC was because of how they did at the Boston Marathon.
Who is currently training in these groups in Boston that are capable of making a splash in the Marathon?
Not even a focus.
Boston Marathon is the Goal wrote:
Boston ONLY cares about the Marathon. The glory days of Rodgers and Meyer and Joannie and Hodge and Fleming and the GBTC was because of how they did at the Boston Marathon.
Who is currently training in these groups in Boston that are capable of making a splash in the Marathon?
Not even a focus.
[/quote]
What are you talking about? Boston has a wonderful and complete xc season for HS to Elderly. It has a complete Indoor season and a solid outdoor season for HS to Elderly. I spent a number of years racing a ton without ever racing on the roads.
I live in San Fran now and it's not even close in terms of options.
uncle Pervy wrote:
Boston Marathon is the Goal wrote:Boston ONLY cares about the Marathon. The glory days of Rodgers and Meyer and Joannie and Hodge and Fleming and the GBTC was because of how they did at the Boston Marathon.
Who is currently training in these groups in Boston that are capable of making a splash in the Marathon?
Not even a focus.
100% spot on.
uncle Pervy wrote:
What are you talking about? Boston has a wonderful and complete xc season for HS to Elderly. It has a complete Indoor season and a solid outdoor season for HS to Elderly. I spent a number of years racing a ton without ever racing on the roads.
I live in San Fran now and it's not even close in terms of options.
It is not a matter what is available the public doesn't care. I love the Indoor season. but people don't care.
What people don't care and why would it matter? The New Balance Games sell out every year so there's obviously an audience. For an athlete hoping to reach national or world class and who sees indoor racing as part of the process, nowhere in the US are there more high quality meets than in Boston. Where did Rupp go last winter when he was on his indoor record breaking binge? There is probably more year round, high quality, competition in Boston that anywhere else in the US.
HRE wrote:
There is probably more year round, high quality, competition in Boston that anywhere else in the US.
Fact. Let's review:
XC:
- USATF-NE has a Grand Prix of races ranging from 2.8 miles to 10k. This includes the ultra-competitive Mayor's Cup, along with many other high-quality races.
Indoor:
- Nothing beats the BU Valentine and Terrier meets. Literally whatever time range you are in, there will be competition. As has already been mentioned, Rupp came here for this.
- If 50 hour meets aren't your thing, there are plenty of smaller scale, but still plenty competitive meets ranging from BU mini meets ($5 per event, really low key) to college invites open to post-collegiate runners practically every weekend.
Outdoor:
- New Balance Twilight meets are the main attraction outdoor, with every event offered including the 10k. Not many track 10k's in the US, great to not have to travel for a high-quality one.
- College meets every weekend that allow open runners.
Roads:
- Boston Marathon. Falmouth Road Race. Beach to Beacon (if you count southern Maine as Mass).
- USATF-NE Road Grand Prix (separate from XC grand prix) covers 5k/10k/15k/5mi/10mi/13.1/26.2.
Hands down, Boston has the best Sub-Elite training/racing system in the country. Between all the races and clubs, it really can't be beat. Will be interesting to see if that translates to elite groups too.
The New Balance meets are good, sometimes they have high quality races, but that has diminished over the years. rarely is there a high quality 10k.
The road racing scene is good, a couple of quality races as mentioned, the quality of the local scene has really dropped off over the years.
Rupp did come to BU, not for the comp, but for the track, I think NY and Armory have more high quality meets in general.
If you live here, it is very expensive, is it really worth it considering the weather and the mediocre trail system in Boston?
If you really need to run on trails for some reason, the Fells and Blue Hills reservations are right here. Most elite road runners I know are too paranoid of injury to run on technical trails, though. Why would that even matter, unless you're a trail racer?
Jamaica Pond Scum wrote:
If you really need to run on trails for some reason, the Fells and Blue Hills reservations are right here. Most elite road runners I know are too paranoid of injury to run on technical trails, though. Why would that even matter, unless you're a trail racer?
It isn't about running on technical trails, more about softer surfaces and variety. Not to mention the fact that running along the Charles for instance is like sucking on a car exhaust pipe/
Yes and no. While the temperatures are actually not bad, the issue is the snow and where to put it. This varies greatly based on how much snow there is in a given year or a given month. Boston is an extremely densely populated, so there ends up being giant snowbanks along both sides of narrow streets. Thus if you try to run in the street, drivers may yell at you to go on the very icy sidewalks. The city is well lit at night which is good for years it doesn't snow as much. As for indoor tracks, there is the reggie lewis center, although many people don't have cars and it is in a somewhat sketchy part of boston. Also there is a track in lexington, although that it is only accessible by car. There is an indoor track at some of the other colleges and at a few gyms, but some are quite expensive and have very limited hours to the public.
running girl 79 wrote:
Yes and no. While the temperatures are actually not bad, the issue is the snow and where to put it. This varies greatly based on how much snow there is in a given year or a given month. Boston is an extremely densely populated, so there ends up being giant snowbanks along both sides of narrow streets. Thus if you try to run in the street, drivers may yell at you to go on the very icy sidewalks. The city is well lit at night which is good for years it doesn't snow as much. As for indoor tracks, there is the reggie lewis center, although many people don't have cars and it is in a somewhat sketchy part of boston. Also there is a track in lexington, although that it is only accessible by car. There is an indoor track at some of the other colleges and at a few gyms, but some are quite expensive and have very limited hours to the public.
Why do you want to live an a very expensive city where you have to run indoors? Live someplace where you can breathe fresh air.
I'm sorry Boston is the Nike Campus.
Jamaica Pond Scum wrote:
It doesn't matter. You know, Bill Rodgers ran 2:09 with most of his mileage was on a 1.5 mile loop. Frank Shorter, Galloway, etc had a thriving distance crew in Gainesville, the Hansons are in MiddleofNowhere, Michigan, Dick Beardsley trained in Minnesota. The rainy season makes training difficult in Kenya for a month or two. I think that making a place a training mecca is more about gathering talent and giving a little support than having the best trails and the most perfect training days.
This is right, but I think that the BAA in particular will need to make a much bigger investment if Boston is to become any kind of "mecca"
How about if the BAA spent some of its millions to build a training facility and clubhouse for a team of 100 runners who would all work together for the express purpose of putting one of their own on the victory stand in Boston.
Many of this group could be placed in a program to be created by the BAA in partnership with local non-profits to do volunteer work in the communities that host the marathon route.
Something like this
http://www.nedistance.org/but on a much larger scale.
How come a non-profit like the Boston Marathon can make a billion for charities but will not invest heavily in having some excellence and developing some world class competitors from their own club?
Of course all of this would take some vision and some planning for the future.
Why are you all complaining about the weather. it's the snippy, snappy people who truly suck. The term Mxsshole did not come out of nowhere.
Bottom line, training in Boston in the winter sucks. The white stuff hits and you're pounding the pavement for a solid 2.5 months. Plan on several multiple day stretches of treadmill running. Throw in a couple more bc you're so damn sick of the cold on certain days you just need a break. If you're a working man, maybe you can get out there at lunch, but otherwise it's the treadmill or the freezing dark. If I were to drop everything in consideration of running, I'd get the eff out of Boston after Thanksgiving and not come back until March.
But back in the day, "when men were men", it didn't matter. They put in those miserable miles regardless of the weather.
The game has changed now, though. IMO, pros can't really risk the reduced quality of training and stay competitive.
Kim Smith goes to Florida for the vast majority of the winter, btw. Ben True gets out of town (NH) as well, I believe. They aren't stupid and they have the resources to do so.