Going out too fast in XC

I think you have to get out fast and be in the top 10 if possible at the mile. You lose touch at the back of a race, and you can't cover any moves at the front. It's only 5K so not much time to move up if you don't get out with the leaders.

if you're a 16 minute 5k runner and you go out at a 4:40 pace chances are you're not going to stay at the front you're going to suffer. Practice different strategies to learn how to go out fast and learn how to pick it up and pass people in a race. Chances are there aren't 100s of people of similar ability fighting for position. I don't think a HSer will find it difficult to pass people who went out too fast after the first 600. Listen to your breathing, that is the only constant as terrain and other factors will make trying to run a certain time frustrating and unrealistic.

Well if you watch the big boys race 5k/10k distances, the pace usually begins to pick up at end of race. If you go out too fast early in the race, you might not have enough in the tank to finish strong.

The same way you want to start a track race by getting to a certain spot on the track, so you don't get spit out the back, you can start a cross country similarly by getting up to speed quickly in first 7 to 8 secs and then start to settle into race pace. If you are in 5:10 mi. shape and you go too hard in first mile, you will have to recover after that and as you have (I believe) correctly stated you can loose more at this point in the race than you have gained in first mile. The only exception is when the course dictates to everyone that you get to a point quicker than you would like to or risk having to slow down( bottle neck). I think it is better to train to negative split last mile.

A XC 5k is very different from a track 5k or even a road 5k.

The strategy in XC is, and this goes even for the boys winning the world champs, go out hard and try to die as little as possible.

Obv if you're a 16min guy on the track, don't start off like you'll run 14.30 on grass. But be prepared to go hard and stay around people of your own ability. You're all going to slow down, it's about slowing down the least.

That's how xc works.

Goes out too fast wrote:

I have a racing strategy question...

I am a 16:00 guy and I'm wondering about the effects of going out too fast on a 5k course. Sometimes coach tells us to go super fast at the beginning to get our position established. But I also read that if you go out 10+ seconds faster than you're supposed to, then you could lose as much as 2-3 seconds per 400 after. So in a 5k race that could be 25-30 seconds of losing time (so a net loss of 15-20 seconds).

On some courses it might be worth the sacrifice, I guess. But in general, I should just get in my 5:10-5:20 pace as soon as possible instead of killing myself at 4:40 pace for the first minute or two of the race, right?

Yes, you're absolutely right - many runners, especially in high school go out too fast in XC. Part of the problem is subconsciously assuming that correlation = causation: runners who go out slower finish further back. In fact, even when fast runners go out slower than usual, they finish further back than usual. Of course, the real reason for this is that there is a good chance they are having a bad day if they went out slower.

The only question that matters is: "What happens when a fast runner goes out at a slower, more sensible pace - on purpose?" You would have to understand that you might have to gradually work your way up over the course of the race, but if you were able to execute this, it is definitely the better strategy in my opinion.

I've found that a lot of coaches suffer from loss aversion - they are trying to not lose more than they are trying to win. They can't stand the thought of going out too slow, but if you go out too fast and die, "at least you went for it." In reality though, going out too fast is worse than going out too slowly, especially in a long season with too many races.

It depends on the course and your competition. If it is an open course with plenty of room to passand 16:00 will only get you top 25 or so then you should run even and pick off everyone dying in the last mile.

If you are looking at a race where you could potentially win, you should get out a little quick, probably like a 72 or 73 first 400 then hit the mile in about 5:03 and work yourself up to the leaders from there and battle it out.

Reading Daniels book where he talks about going out slower than you would want to and that you will catch group that went out too fast in middle. He believes most go out way too fast, also cautions about saving too much for kick. (Let's assume the course has no obstacles as in things that would make it hard to catch up like narrow bridges.)

From reading this thread it sounds as though some people go out fast and hang on-is it individual dependent?

How do you practice these strategies before x-c season? Should easy runs be run at some variation of effort for middle and last third? Should I be concentrating on making sure I am even splitting by noting splits and comparing to how effort feels (no watch allowed in hs racing)?

Thanks for your replies.

If your goal is even splits, there are a few things to try.

In workouts, run your pace based on your fitness. If you're an 18:36 5K runner, run your race-pace 1200s in 4:30, rather than 4:00, 4:15, 4:35...

Practice even splitting in races. If your goal is a 5:30 pace, get your mile split in every race and see how close you are. It takes practice and discipline to start and pace, and to stay on pace and move up after that.

Typical XC race has best runner going out too fast, then dies, but still wins the race because all the others went out with him and died worse.

I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that in HS 90% of runner go out too fast. You are generally better off with an even pace, but realize that even pacing still hurts more and more as the race goes on. It isn't "even hurting" -- but it is keeping it in control the first half of the race.

What makes XC different is the courses can alter this. Some courses are narrow and in the woods, and it is hard to work your way up so you need to get out decently. Others are wide open, and favor those who pace more sensibly. I also favor going out hard if the hills are really late in the course, and taking it a bit easier if the hills are early.