Should running be banned in the Grand Canyon? Many say yes

Running there should be allowed. As tax paying citizens, we own the damn place. We pay the park rangers' salaries.

If overcrowding is the issue, just limit the number of people allowed to be in at the same time. Simple.

I ran R2R2R after college, traffic was not that bad(1997) I went to just run some of the trails in 2001 and it was getting worse with so many mule's and people. I ran again in 2005 and it was a pain so many people and mule's.

I am really heavy now and couldn't run it again due to some serious health problems.

I feel like the park would rather deal with people like me now. People overweight and out of shape trucking a mile or two up the trail and nearly passing out, then a an in shape runner having fun.

The stashing water bottle's or you die, I don't get the problem.

Overweight people getting mad if you pass them fast, I don't get the problem.

Peeing on the trail, add some bathrooms, I don't get the problem.

If you are unprepared and you try a R2R2R, that is when you have problems. Those people make everybody else look bad.

Also the overweight trail gawkers. The one's who look at you like your nuts for running, I am sure they are the head of the complainers about running in the canyon.

I've recently discovered the beauty of national parks including the Grand Canyon. I've been going more often. I think others should as well. The parks are for us. We pay for it.

I know that some park officials view the public as a nuisance. Somehow they think that people and nature don't mix, especially if the number of people gets too big. In my opinion, the thinking is backwards.

If numbers are up, great! If people these days like the challenge of running rim-to-rim then support it.

Update Phantom Ranch with bathrooms, water, rest area, and aid station. Also make it a bail out point for those who get in over their heads.

“I don’t think everyone understands what their impacts are,” says Rachel Bennett, the park’s environmental protection specialist."

What about the impact of all that damn water? Are they going to cry about that too?

They make it sound like runners aren't humans. They may as just well say "humans are no longer allowed in the Grand Canyon." Or, maybe they need someone patrolling with a yellow and red card to warn any fast walkers that are "lifting".

see sinyour wrote:

What about the impact of all that damn water?

LOL! Great point.

Regarding your point about humans, we are a part of nature just like "all that damn water", lighting, fires, bears, and other animals.

The biggest mess that I saw on the trails when I visited was the droppings from the mules and random messes left by large animals.

My wife works in retail. She jokes, "my job wouldn't be all that bad if it wasn't for the customers". Park Rangers must feel the same, but they aren't joking.

having run in the Grand Canyon, and been involved in public land recreation management issues, I can see where some runners are increasing conflicts with other users and the environment.

The problem is not just the act of running per se, it is the behavior of some runners. Increasingly, more and more runners in the Canyon are focused only on running fast (trying to do it quickly, trying for a PR, trying for a FKT), not being respectful and courteous sharing the trail with other users, and not being respectful of the environment and area they are in.

A big problem is many runners are focused more on internal things (like getting a good workout, keeping their pace up, their rhythm, their time, covering a certain distance in a certain time) instead of external things (like enjoying and experiencing the amazing natural and environmental wonder this place is)

A runner also has more impacts on more trail miles and trail users than a hiker, horse or mule because of the greater speed of travel. Increased human presence over larger areas, and the negative impacts that has on wildlife and other resources, is something that makes public land management more challenging as more and more people choose faster forms of travel (running, mountain biking, OHV riding, 4WD use as opposed to hiking).

As running is sort of a "new" activity or use land managers often struggle with how that can and should fit in with established traditional uses.

This can result in conflicts and negative interactions with other trail users, improper sanitation, littering, stashing gear and aid, pacing, placing additional strains on emergency services because they attempt things they are not trained to do, etc.

The mule trains are a pain for all other trail users but they somehow are allowed preferential status as a traditional use, because they are animals, and they are an officially permitted activity that generates some revenue for the park and resupply facilities.

I also am very familiar with the LT 100 and can attest to the negative impacts that event has. Again it is not the act of running it is the way some runners act.

Part of the problem is we have a lot of new people running in these areas and trails that are used to a totally different running ethic. Masses of road racers used to listening to music through earbuds, and that are used to being handed aid in a cup that they then throw on the ground. Competitive track runners that are focused on splits, times, speed and how the run fits into their training plan.

So runners need to understand that there are many areas that many people use and value for other reasons mainly having to do with the experiencing and enjoyment of the environment and natural world. Especially places like National Parks, Monuments, designated Wilderness. Runners and others can treat these places like fantastic outdoor gymnasiums and training trails, but they need to be very respectful of all other users and the environment.

This means stopping and yielding to all other users, following all regulations, being self sufficient, packing out everything you bring in, and even avoiding crowded areas and times.

Yes there are many other people visiting the Canyon and other areas that treat it and other users with little respect. As runners, we can be better than that and have to be.

The thinking isn't backwards. The #'s are so enormous that they bring with them serious pollution problems. That is why they had to make people at Yosemite park outside and take shuttles into the park.

I hiked down it and then ran back up (was losing daylight and didn't have a lamp) several years ago. It was grueling, but I was fine. There was water at the bottom and many people with food and water along the way in case of an emergency. The trails were busy but not terrible. Relatively few people actually go all the way to the bottom. Seems silly to me to ban running there. Might as well ban visiting Yellowstone since people get attacked by bears there once in a while. It's just the nature of the beast (no pun intended).

Which is why you shouldn't do your tempo run at the Grand Canyon. What's the point of running there unless you enjoy the scenery?

rojo wrote:

http://running.competitor.com/2014/07/news/grand-canyon_108186

I wonder what Wejo says. He knew THAT girl THAT died THAT is mentioned in the article.

rojo, first of all, don't you ever speak with your brother or exchange emails?

Secondly, I know that you that should that read that what that you that write that before that you that post that to that see that if that it that makes that any that sense.

Is the issue running or large planned events? I don't see how they could reasonable enforce a no run policy at park as big as the Grand Canyon for the individual person. But they could kill planned events. But should planned events be banned? It might be prudent if the event organizers don't get their acts in order. The canyon is very dangerous place to race and it is probably not a good idea to have a large contingent of unskilled low experienced runners racing there. Keep the events small and only open to experienced trail racers. But don't close the canyon to runners as a general rule.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

The thinking isn't backwards. The #'s are so enormous that they bring with them serious pollution problems. That is why they had to make people at Yosemite park outside and take shuttles into the park.

That is a great solution. Manage the negative impact, encourage more people. The Grand Canyon needs the same progressive thinking. I'll bet that Yosemite want to "ban" or "limit" before they found a win-win solution.

Roflcopterzncheese wrote:

Running there should be allowed. As tax paying citizens, we own the damn place. We pay the park rangers' salaries.

If overcrowding is the issue, just limit the number of people allowed to be in at the same time. Simple.

This.

The backcountry running craze is a little out of control. I climbed Pikes Peak last weekend with my teenage son. There were probably 50 trail runners we met. Trail etiquette dictates that the uphill climber has the right of way-Not a one of the joggers (and they were largely jogging) yielded. That betrays an arrogance. I bet I saw 10 empty gu packs on the trail-could have come from anyone, but I'm guessing more than likely they came from runners. One of the traditional training routines for the Pikes Peak race (which is held in a couple weeks) is to drive or ride the train to the summit, and then run repeats up and down the top two or three miles of the trail. These rude runners were flying up and down, oblivious to the HUNDREDS of other users (most of whom were finishing up a 13 mile, 7000 foot vertical hike)

In Leadville, there is a trail race pretty much every weekend from the fourth of July to the end of August. There is a serious effort to restrict the number of these events. The economic benefits just aren't worth having people pee and crap on your lawn 6 weekends a year. It really ruins the summer, when every weekend the circus comes to town.

Long story short-when you travel to races, behave. And when you run on a trail, treat other users-even if they're walking and not wearing spandex-with respect and courtesy. If you're a 4 or 5 hour flatland marathoner on Pikes Peak (as the two thirds of the racers are), you ain't the sh1t - you're just someone swimming way over your head. If nasty weather comes in, and the road is closed and the train doesn't run-will you survive in that tank top? Same issue at the Grand Canyon-people rely on the Park to rescue them from their bad decisions-giving such an extreme place the appearance of a safety net.

And don't litter-Ever.

misbehaving runners give the rest of us a bad name..

from the article,

"In their desperation and delirium, they cut to the front of water lines, clog trails and picnic areas by lying down, and leave things behind them. Rangers and more experienced visitors have to attend to struggling crossers and drive them the long way back around the canyon if they can’t make the return journey."

"the park released courtesy guidelines for runners, covering things like cleaning up your trash, yielding to mule packs and not using the canyon as a bathroom."

I'd certainly sympathize with the park if they closed to runners. Looking after ego-driven casualties lacking the will to prepare seems to be a significant burden on park administration, already overworked and underfunded.

The alternative is a limited permit system. I put in for a permit to canoe the Grand Canyon - wait time was about twenty years at that point. When it got to 25 years, that permit system was changed to a weighted lottery. Run permits will have to follow the same scheme. I never did get my boating permit..

LeadvilleNative wrote:

The back-country running craze is a little out of control. I climbed Pikes Peak last weekend with my teenage son. There were probably 50 trail runners we met. Trail etiquette dictates that the uphill climber has the right of way - not one of the joggers (and they were largely jogging) yielded. That betrays an arrogance. I bet I saw 10 empty gu packs on the trail-could have come from anyone, but I'm guessing more than likely they came from runners.

My advice: Don't ban the runners (or joggers), ban the poor behavior. Even in the most elite of racing, there is etiquette.

Man I hate those trail runners who leave GU packets everywhere. They're making a terrible reputation for the rest of us.

I have run the R2R GC 13 times over the past 20 years. I schedule my runs solo and early in the morning an hour before sunrise. I am out by 1100. I take all trash out mine or not, never cache any extra water or food, what I take in my hydration pack comes out with me. I pick up the trash of others out of respect for the park. I yield to mules and horses and stand aside. I notify people I'm coming up behind them and which direction I will pass them so they are not startled as I kick it on by,-. I make eye contact and say something encouraging to each and every person. I am sensitive to the other park visitor who number around 10-Million people each year. A few thousand hikers hike down each day to the river or Inspiration Point Lookout.

I estimate between the casual observer very few of the hordes that arrive each day will stay at the top in the hotels and restaurant or at the lookout. Point: many visit but few walk down any mid-distance. The true fast hikers or running are a small minority of Par user.

NO QUOTAS, no limitation or restriction on numbers, it all groups in the Grand Canyon look out to the interest of all other groups. As A trail runner from Flagstaff, any attempts to monitor usages must be deciphered. The tree hugger believe they have the only right to be there because they love the Canyon more than anyone else. Balderdash, it is the people park. If trash is a problem deal with it, but don't enact draconian measure. vast of the people do the right things in the right way. I run quickly and discretely and leave only footprints. I help people who are hurting and encouraging those who are struggling. I pick up others trash and haul it out. I deserve, I have earned the right to be on that trail anytime I please. I leave only footprints. Those obese hikers who bite off more trail than you could possibly use and become a rescue statistic should not be allowed off the rim. The foreigners who arrive to hike in urban leather jack, no socks, leather penny-loafer shoes, large purse, no hats, several kids running amok, and an inflated view of their abilities, are the ones causing problems and are most likely to not make it out on their own and need to be rescued. Runners account for less than 1% of Park Visitors, they move to the side and yield to the other trail users when necessary. Any user who throws trash, needs his but kicked and right there

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

The thinking isn't backwards. The #'s are so enormous that they bring with them serious pollution problems. That is why they had to make people at Yosemite park outside and take shuttles into the park.

In Denali you can ONLY go beyond 15 miles in the park two ways. One is on a park shuttle bus, the second is if you are camping and have a permit.

This limits the numbers (which limits pollution, accidents, & general stupidity) and at any time the park officials know exactly how many people are in the park on a given day; and have a working idea of where they are.

I think Denali should be a model for the other parks.