From "good" to elite in 2 years.. Is it possible?

Stay healthy while doing the following:

- increase your mileage - build a big base

- do a ton of cross training like aqua jogging (best), bike, elliptical

- hit the weight room hard and consistently (upper body, core, and legs)

- do strides a few days a week after your run to develop speed

- once you've built up a big base of mileage and cross training, start developing that into a lot of strength with hill workouts and tempo runs

- once you've done a lot of hill and tempo workouts start to transition into anaerobic workouts (i.e. track intervals, fartleks)

- if you have any fat to lose, lose it

- keep track of progress, find out what works and what doesn't

- if you happen to get injured, cross train like a madman and keep hitting the weights and do a lot of walking until you are healthy

- ice, massage, and stretch daily to help prevent soreness or injuries

- if you don't have quality coaching you might want to take a season off to train on your own (build up that big base and strength mentioned above) because being forced to train under low quality coaching is not going to help you.

Follow the above and no guarantees of becoming elite, but becoming the best HS runner you can be is possible.

I did this. I went from 16:29 to 15:17 5k in one year.

Training when I ran 16:29 - 30 mpw, HARD track intervals (like throwing up, laying on the ground hard), no long run.

Training 1 year later when I ran 15:17 - 90-100 MPW, tempo runs every week, long run and did a 5 mile morning run 6 days a week. Ran intervals but nothing like before.

Mileage jump was instantaneous, literally went 30 to 80 in one week, 80 to 90 the next, etc. I avoided injury by getting a lot of sleep, icing problem areas after runs. No weight room or anything like that but did a lot of stretching.

Wow, thanks for all the great advice. I really appreciate it! So I should just be doing all easy runs and long runs right now until I build up a big base?

TLW wrote:

I did this. I went from 16:29 to 15:17 5k in one year.

Training when I ran 16:29 - 30 mpw, HARD track intervals (like throwing up, laying on the ground hard), no long run.

Training 1 year later when I ran 15:17 - 90-100 MPW, tempo runs every week, long run and did a 5 mile morning run 6 days a week. Ran intervals but nothing like before.

Mileage jump was instantaneous, literally went 30 to 80 in one week, 80 to 90 the next, etc. I avoided injury by getting a lot of sleep, icing problem areas after runs. No weight room or anything like that but did a lot of stretching.

I lost track of how many things are likely to get most injured. This poster must have access to the fountain of youth or something. 6 doubles a week and 100 mile weeks are NOT advisable for high schoolers. You will get results (if you stay healthy), but will probably never improve after that.

I went from 17:20s in soph XC to low 15:00s junior year (had a sub-15 5k at state but the course was likely short that year). My soph mile PR was 4:31 so that is an advantage I had over your 4:41.

The big change I made was training during the summer, 55-60 miles per week with one 12 mile run and at least one threshold run. All summer ran the mile in an occasional all-comers meet in around 4:40. Did this the entire summer and was on an entirely new level by fall.

Do some core work but ignore the rest of the long list from the other poster, you don't need it.

Search for and read "Summmer of malmo" if you haven't already.

Big improvements are possible, as indicated by the previous posters, but are usually the result of a significant change in training. I was a 17:03 runner messing around at 25 MPW and a year later, with a few months of collegiate training, I ran 15:55.

telecran wrote:6 doubles a week and 100 mile weeks are NOT advisable for high schoolers. You will get results (if you stay healthy), but will probably never improve after that.

Agree with you except when you say a runner will not improve if they run high mileage in HS. I don't advise high mileage for HS runners, but if they remain injury-free then it does not limit future potential. Show me a study that says high mileage reduces future potential.

Ignore stuff if you don't want to be at your best. Ignoring avenues to improvement is a great way to not be at your best. Since this kid wants to be elite he should do everything he can, just doing more mileage and some core work isn't gonna get him to be the best runner he can be. But yes, if he wants to see how much he can improve without really giving it his all then just raising mileage is the best single thing he can do, of course he could just get injured doing this and then mileage doesn't do anything for him.

I have only coached a couple friends/former teammates for a few months each, but both saw huge improvements in that short time without even including the weights/cross training that I mentioned above. The way I structure a full training block is this, and this is just in general since I know nothing about you or your training. You want to build up your aerobic base, transition it into a high-end aerobic capacity, transition that into a good anaerobic capacity, then for your goal race(s) you want to taper your mileage down a bit, just do some sprint/short workouts, and rest up for the race(s).

Phase 1:

This phase is assuming you are coming off some period of no running after a season. Just start easy running again. Start building up mileage back to whatever mileage you are used to doing, or more than you are used to if you are looking to increase mileage. Increase mileage however fast you feel comfortable doing it. All easy runs. Start throwing a few 75-100m strides in at the ends of runs at some point during this phase. At some point also start doing a weekly long run.

You can do one fairly light workout a week here if you want, just like an easy fartlek or tempo run.

Also during this phase you should start lifting to build your muscular strength. And, if you can, start doing some cross training to help increase the base you are building. You can pretty much do as much cross training as you like, in general the more the better, as long as it isn't exhausting you for your runs.

This phase can last as long as it takes you to build up your mileage.

Phase 2:

You should be at your goal mileage now. Make sure your body is handling the mileage okay. If something is hurting or you're feeling exhausted take an easy week. The occasional easy week can head off injuries. Anyway, start adding in a weekly tempo run and a weekly hill workout and continue doing your weekly long run. Try to do both long/steady and short/steep hills. Your tempo runs should probably start at like a 2 mile tempo workout where you're going at a comfortably fast pace, not close to race pace. And build up to doing longer tempo workouts. My favorite is 5k tempo run, about a 10 minute break, and another 5k tempo at the same pace - if you can't run the same pace for the second one then you are running too fast. Depending on how long you have until your races this phase might be a month or 2-3 months (a full year training plan 3 months would be appropriate). Oh, you can also mix some fartleks in here occasionally to take the place of some of the other workouts if you want.

Phase 3:

Once you feel you have strong endurance and feel good going at a strong pace for a long period of time, and feel good on hills, then you want to transition into doing distance-oriented track training. Stuff like mile repeats. And you can continue doing tempo runs. You should be able to pop out a very good 5k by the end of this phase. Do this for a few weeks to a couple months, depending on the length of time you have until goal races.

Phase 4:

Anaerobic conditioning. Here you start doing hard track work. This is the bread and butter of a mid-distance runner. If focusing on 5k XC you only need to do some of this and should spend a bit longer in the previous phase. If training for a mile you should do 2 months of this. Basically twice a week do intervals 200-800 meters. Doing 400m intervals is pretty standard, but mix it up so you aren't doing the exact same thing every workout. Your mileage might drop a little bit now because your workouts contain less mileage.

Phase 5:

Racing time. Time for you to peak over the last few weeks or month of your training as your goal race(s) approach. Decrease mileage, start focusing your workouts on more like a series 100-200m sprints. Should get yourself rested before any race.

That's a basic training block: build endurance -> build high-end aerobic capacity -> build anaerobic capacity -> build speed and peak for your races.

telecran wrote:

I lost track of how many things are likely to get most injured. This poster must have access to the fountain of youth or something. 6 doubles a week and 100 mile weeks are NOT advisable for high schoolers. You will get results (if you stay healthy), but will probably never improve after that.

I improved significantly after that actually.

Keep in mind that when I first started running 100 MPW my average pace was maybe 7:15+ per mile average. After a year or two of I was running 6:20 average pace. The overall quality improved which translated into better results.

There are a few factors: I was extremely serious about recovery. I went to bed early, did not drink one drop of alcohol, and sat in an ice bath every afternoon.

I used to read this board all the time back in the early 2000s when I was doing this and someone posted something along the lines of "Injuries heal, slow times don't". I don't know why but that really stuck with me. As a 30 something now who is not as fast as I once was, I'm glad I trained hard and got results because I don't have to look back and think what if. I did it.

It really comes down to how bad you want it. Sure, you may break your leg doing this or you may become the athlete you want to be. The only way to find out is to go out and do it.

eat lots of plants, and healthy fats from natural meats, nuts, etc.

challenging training is one thing, but only a lean athlete runs to their potential.

keep the garbage out of your mouth and burn off body fat until you look as lean as the studs you admire running at the front of national and world-class packs. you can't fly with dead weight hanging on you. there are no badass runners who are fat or even average-looking like the nondescript guy or girl next to you in line at the store.

case in point: look at kim conley. for a distance runner, she was a slightly chubby girl in high school, managing to run 5 flat or so. as an adult, she has slowly engineered her body so it is lean and mean--not starved-out anorexic. she probably took off a good 20 lbs of chub between age 17 and 27.

no way she'd be running close to these times at 130 lbs.

that's the key: very lean and very healthy in every way.

you gotta train your ass off; get great rest; and eat the right amounts of nutrient-dense foods to keep you healthy and lean.

high school:

http://northbay.com/running/conley1600.jpg

http://archive.dyestat.com/image/3xc/10-October%202003/18Mariner/031018LindsayAllenCollegeParkKimConleyMontgomeryCWoolridge.jpg

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h404/xcfan/kimconley2004leaguechampionships.jpg

now:

http://37.media.tumblr.com/51e34b0da2d21c39349060b3c878f367/tumblr_n7uh1vCHke1rcfea1o1_400.png

http://davisenterprise.s3.amazonaws.com/files/2012/06/29conleyW.jpg

TLW, what you did would get 99% of runners injured. Glad it worked out for you, but it is horrible advice to give to someone because you were extremely lucky that you were able to handle it (no doubt being extremely serious about recovery helped you, but no matter how serious about recovery you are, that is gonna injure nearly anyone who tries it). Also, sometimes injuries don't heal, instead they linger and maybe new injuries pop up, that's how career end early. In general the view "injuries heal, slow times don't" is a great motto to follow if you want to get injured and stay injured so that you don't even have the chance to improve. Glad that wasn't the case with you, but the best way to have slow times is by getting injured.

Good advice though on injury prevention: icing, lots of sleep, lots of stretching.

And good advice on types of workouts, as you said, tempo runs and long runs are much better than killer track workouts. For most of the year track workouts are not needed cuz really you only want to do hard track work for a couple months to make you race sharp. Anymore than that usually results in a plateau and can result in injures every bit as much as doing too much mileage can. I think a lot of high school coaches have their kids do way too much hard track stuff to get them in shape quickly for the season, when they should be building them up with tempo work and long runs for most of the year.

I am not going to advocate this exactly, but if you have been doing moderate mileage (maybe more like 50) this is not entirely unrealistic. As noted attention to stretching, icing, sleep, etc are imperative. Joe Vigil is one prominent coach who doesn't wait long to get to max mileage. He literally says that within weeks (6-8) you can do it and your body will adjust. He also staggers big weeks however doing things like 60-80-70-90-80-120-100-etc. He only holds peak mileage for a shorter time and does micro and meso cycles like this. I think doing something like this, but being a bit more liberal in how you get there is fine. As long as the am run is easy, you will adapt to doubles. Summer of malmo advocates something similar. I would say that there is nothing sacred about jumping to 90-100. If you start at 30, getting to 50-70 might be a good intermediate step. If you body handles the increase well, then try getting up to 80-90 making sure to listen to your body. I think one thing that can't be overstated and TLW mentions, was the change in philosophy from working to extreme intensity to working within your body and instead focusing on volume. That is lost upon many runners. There is a place for both, but extreme intensity or pushing pace on all your runs is something many inexperienced runners do. Faster average training pace and workouts are faster b/c of adaptation, not something that can be forced. And when one sees a fit runner running faster, it is relatively easy for them and they could probably be running much quicker (but are choosing to run easier!)In any case, good luck.

telecran wrote:

I lost track of how many things are likely to get most injured. This poster must have access to the fountain of youth or something. 6 doubles a week and 100 mile weeks are NOT advisable for high schoolers. You will get results (if you stay healthy), but will probably never improve after that.

I improved significantly after that actually.

Keep in mind that when I first started running 100 MPW my average pace was maybe 7:15+ per mile average. After a year or two of I was running 6:20 average pace. The overall quality improved which translated into better results.

There are a few factors: I was extremely serious about recovery. I went to bed early, did not drink one drop of alcohol, and sat in an ice bath every afternoon.

I used to read this board all the time back in the early 2000s when I was doing this and someone posted something along the lines of "Injuries heal, slow times don't". I don't know why but that really stuck with me. As a 30 something now who is not as fast as I once was, I'm glad I trained hard and got results because I don't have to look back and think what if. I did it.

It really comes down to how bad you want it. Sure, you may break your leg doing this or you may become the athlete you want to be. The only way to find out is to go out and do it.[/quote]

also, if you want to be elite, you have to possess the raw materials at birth.

look at jenny simpson in high school. her athletic, track body stood well apart from the other try-hard girls at footlocker and such. her athleticism was way out of their league. that's what you call an high ceiling.

good luck