And please no bull answers like "it only takes 1 less minute."
And please no bull answers like "it only takes 1 less minute."
that entirely depends on your ability. If you race every week and have a PR of 17.59 then running under 17 isn't likely to happen any time soon and, as such, will definitely be 'noticeably harder' than breaking 18 (in as much as you almost definitely won't be able to do it). But, for a 14 min 5k runner, I shouldn't imagine there'd be a huge difference in their effort level to run 16.50 than 17.50 - some obviously, just not a huge amount.
Bizarre question.
each successive 1 minute barrier is significantly harder than the last. Your talent level is largely dependent on how hard each level is.
For some people 17 is so easy, for others it is a big barrier. Depends on the talent a lot.
Is breaking 14 minutes noticeably harder than 13 in the 5k?
Ooops wrote:
Is breaking 14 minutes noticeably harder than 13 in the 5k?
Is longjumping 28 feet noticeably harder than longjumping 23 feet?
OP,
Odd that you would ask this question today, because this EXACT question came up in my house just this past week. My son will be a freshman in high school this year, and following his 8th grade track season where they usually ran MAYBE 2.5 miles a day, he jumped in a 5k and ran 18:52. Now he is starting his 4th week of summer CC training with the high school team, and he is running at least 5.5 miles a day and has done two of 6.5 miles. I'm trying to make sure he doesn't jump up too quickly and have told him to hold off from joining the 8 mile group just yet. Anyway, he is feeling much faster than ever, and has stated that his goal is to get under 17 minutes in the fall as a freshman.
So, I think he even said verbatim to me, "Is breaking 17 min noticeably harder than 18 minutes?"
My answer TO HIM was not to be disappointed if he doesn't get under 17 minutes as a freshman. He is younger than most in his grade...he was still just 13 when he ran that 18:52. Running in the 16s is no easy feat. I did it in my first 5,000 ever, but that's because in Ohio we didn't run the 5,000 in CC until I was a junior in high school, and I hadn't run a 5k before then.
My answer TO YOU is that yes, it is noticeably harder...especially if you are systematically progressing toward that goal. Lots of high school runners top out in the 17s and never break that barrier.
Good luck.
No. They're about the same.
SpanishLinguistics wrote:
And please no bull answers like "it only takes 1 less minute."
Since my PR is only 16:xx on relatively light training compared to most letsrunners and college runners, yes. When out of shape, doing 15mpw of just easy running, I can break 18. But to break 17 I actually have to run maybe a workout a week and 60mpw of easy running. Or 25mpw with a lot of quality.
But my genetic limit is probably about 15:30 comparing myself to friends that ran the same HS times but are not much faster because they kept running competitively whereas I do it for fun.
Not fast not slow but ok wrote:
SpanishLinguistics wrote:And please no bull answers like "it only takes 1 less minute."
Since my PR is only 16:xx on relatively light training compared to most letsrunners and college runners, yes. When out of shape, doing 15mpw of just easy running, I can break 18. But to break 17 I actually have to run maybe a workout a week and 60mpw of easy running. Or 25mpw with a lot of quality.
But my genetic limit is probably about 15:30 comparing myself to friends that ran the same HS times but are not much faster because they kept running competitively whereas I do it for fun.
If you need to raise your easy mileage by 45 mpw to drop from 18 to 17, how much more do you raise it to get to 17 to 16? o.0
SpanishLinguistics wrote:
Not fast not slow but ok wrote:Since my PR is only 16:xx on relatively light training compared to most letsrunners and college runners, yes. When out of shape, doing 15mpw of just easy running, I can break 18. But to break 17 I actually have to run maybe a workout a week and 60mpw of easy running. Or 25mpw with a lot of quality.
But my genetic limit is probably about 15:30 comparing myself to friends that ran the same HS times but are not much faster because they kept running competitively whereas I do it for fun.
If you need to raise your easy mileage by 45 mpw to drop from 18 to 17, how much more do you raise it to get to 17 to 16? o.0
About 25 mpw
NotAustin18 wrote:
each successive 1 minute barrier is significantly harder than the last. Your talent level is largely dependent on how hard each level is.
.
That's kind of backwards.
There would be no 18 minute 5K runners If breaking 17 minutes wasn't noticeably harder than running 18 minutes. If an 18 minute guy could just as easily run 16:59, wouldn't he just run 16:59 instead of 18 flat?
The question really depends on the age and experience of the runner. For those who pick up running later in life, it is a different story than for those who ran XC in high school or college.
For those who did not run in school, breaking 18 is an inevitability for most runners with some talent and dedication to training. Breaking 17 is not.
For those who run in high school, breaking 18 is probably a minimum to get on the team and sub 17 is an inevitability for a well trained student athlete.
Mr. Obvious wrote:
NotAustin18 wrote:each successive 1 minute barrier is significantly harder than the last. Your talent level is largely dependent on how hard each level is.
.
That's kind of backwards.
I'm confused, could you explain?
What I mean is that like for an untalented person like me sub 16 is as hard of a barrier as sub 13 is for Galen Rupp, and I've had sub 17 early on and Rupp had sub 14 early on, its that next barrier that takes a lot of work. Rupp is just 3 minutes more talented than me lol
NotAustin18 wrote:
Mr. Obvious wrote:That's kind of backwards.
I'm confused, could you explain?
You said that your level of talent is dependent on how hard it is to experience marginal improvements. The inverse is true. Your level of talent determines how much/how easily you can improve.
SpanishLinguistics wrote:
Not fast not slow but ok wrote:Since my PR is only 16:xx on relatively light training compared to most letsrunners and college runners, yes. When out of shape, doing 15mpw of just easy running, I can break 18. But to break 17 I actually have to run maybe a workout a week and 60mpw of easy running. Or 25mpw with a lot of quality.
But my genetic limit is probably about 15:30 comparing myself to friends that ran the same HS times but are not much faster because they kept running competitively whereas I do it for fun.
If you need to raise your easy mileage by 45 mpw to drop from 18 to 17, how much more do you raise it to get to 17 to 16? o.0
25mpw with a LOT of quality→16:xx
60mpw with ONE day of quality→16:xx.
I wasn't clear enough in my post. Quality running, at least for me, is really important. When I ran in the 16XX with 60mpw I was just doing almost all easy runs with the odd quality track workout. Probably be at 15:50 with three days of quality and 60mpw.
They feel exactly the same if that is where your fitness is at on the day.
Captain Oblivious wrote:
They feel exactly the same if that is where your fitness is at on the day.
Sure, but the marginal training that is required increases with each minute barrier. Someone might be able to run a 17 min 5k on 15 mpw, 16 on 40 mpw, and 15 on 80 mpw. Obviously it isn't quite this simple in practice (quality plays a role), but typically it seems like trained runners expend more energy chasing seconds as less trained runners expend chasing minutes.
Captain Oblivious wrote:
They feel exactly the same if that is where your fitness is at on the day.
This is nearly the correct answer. Your TRAINING may be harder to run a faster time, but the actual race will feel pretty much the same. It could be said that running 17 minutes would be slightly easier because you aren't running for as long a time.