I know that Maxwell and Collins both fell but can someone tell me more? Were they on pace for 4:40? I saw they were 3:28 at 1200m but Id like to know what happened. Thanks :)
I know that Maxwell and Collins both fell but can someone tell me more? Were they on pace for 4:40? I saw they were 3:28 at 1200m but Id like to know what happened. Thanks :)
Maxwell, Collins, and Robinson broke away from the field in literally the first lap, going like 65. They stayed as a pack with nobody close to them until the last 200, where Robinson tried to go wide around the turn while Collins tried to move up on Maxwell. Maxwell tripped up Collins and they both fell, but Robinson (who was running wide right when Collins tripped up Maxwell) got past them.
I don't think any of them were on pace for 4:40. Maxwell might have pulled off a 4:42, give or take, but they hadn't had great lap splits (65-70-73) and it was a hundred degrees out.
The terrible video feed had continuous long pauses between still shots of the runners, but apparently Maxwell lead all the way going into the last backstretch.
Collins was losing contact with Maxwell, Robinson ran by her on the outside into second, then Collins came back through on the inside and (I think) ran into Armstrongs feet, causing Armstrong to fall, and maybe also Collins. Robinson kept going around them and ran through for the win. Collins hung on for second, and Armstrong ended up next to last.
I described it in the longer thread, but Maxwell sowed the seeds of her own defeat with a 65 first lap in blazing heat, leading to the stumbling collision late, from which Collins recovered much better. Robinson was a bit lucky but also clearly the freshest at the end.
She was far more cautious in the 800, running even splits (first 400 only a second faster than in the 1600!) and getting a well-earned second.
Okay thanks! So whos fault was it really or was it kind of everyone's fault? I heard Coach Soles filed a protest which didnt work. I completely agree with his decision as long as it was not everyone involveds fault.
It didn't look like it was really anyones fault. Robinson had moved to the outside and started to make a move. Collins responded and if anything may have run up onto Maxwell (the announcers said when looking at the replay that Collins may have even tripped herself). As she fell, Collins hit Maxwell's legs and took her down.
Hard to say if it was Collins moving up or Maxwell slowing down, but there was nothing sudden by either of them.
As for the finish, all three looked like they had something left. Maybe not a lot, but it was shaping up for quite a finish.
I'm not sure if Maxwell was tripped by Collins or tripped herself. If tripped by Collins then it was the fault of Collins, who looked quite upset afterwards.
That being said, I'm not sure what a protest would accomplish. Probably all three of them wanted to battle it out to the finish.
On the backstretch at the middle of the straightway it was Maxwell, Collins, and Robinson. Collins was right on the heels of Maxwell and Robinson was right on the heels of Collins.
They were too close to each other and Maxwell did not pick up the pace and caused a traffic jam behind her. I believe Robinson tripped Collins while moving to the outside to go around Collins. Terrible running on the part of Robinson. Without the tripping it would have been Maxwell, Robinson, and Collins third.
This is what I saw:
For three laps it had essentially been Maxwell leading, Collins in second and Robinson in third, closely bunched.
Around the first turn of the last lap, Collins seemed to be losing ground and Robinson had moved into second. Then Collins seemed to recover and was moving past Robinson on the inside. She was about two yards behind Maxwell.
At about 250 Collins tripped and fell forward. Was the fall self-inflicted, was she clipped slightly by Robinson or did she clip Maxwell's back-kick? I could't tell in real time.
As Collins fell, her arms and possibly her head seemed to hit Maxwell's leg or foot. Maxwell might already have been off-balance, but it was Collins' fall into her that finally brought Maxwell down.
Meanwhile, Robinson was on the outside and just kept running.
Had the fall not occurred, would Maxwell or Collins have broken 4:40? Probably not - but I think a 4:40-41 might have been likely. Both looked as if they were going to push the final 250, but the fall ended that.
For someone in another thread who said that Maxwell destroyed herself by going out so fast, this was exactly how she ran at state last year when she won. Given her 800 speed, it doesn't make sense that she doesn't trust her kick in big races. Had she followed Collins the first lap, they might have gone out in a more reasonable 67-68 and still have come through in 3:28.
DedicatedRunner wrote:
On the backstretch at the middle of the straightway it was Maxwell, Collins, and Robinson. Collins was right on the heels of Maxwell and Robinson was right on the heels of Collins.
They were too close to each other and Maxwell did not pick up the pace and caused a traffic jam behind her. I believe Robinson tripped Collins while moving to the outside to go around Collins. Terrible running on the part of Robinson. Without the tripping it would have been Maxwell, Robinson, and Collins third.
Robinson clearly didn't trip Collins. Robinson was on the outside already moving past her when Collins tried to move up on the inside and the contact with Maxwell happened. Not sure how anyone could blame Robinson for that -- there was very clearly zero contact between her and Collins.
4:40ish wrote:
DedicatedRunner wrote:On the backstretch at the middle of the straightway it was Maxwell, Collins, and Robinson. Collins was right on the heels of Maxwell and Robinson was right on the heels of Collins.
They were too close to each other and Maxwell did not pick up the pace and caused a traffic jam behind her. I believe Robinson tripped Collins while moving to the outside to go around Collins. Terrible running on the part of Robinson. Without the tripping it would have been Maxwell, Robinson, and Collins third.
Robinson clearly didn't trip Collins. Robinson was on the outside already moving past her when Collins tried to move up on the inside and the contact with Maxwell happened. Not sure how anyone could blame Robinson for that -- there was very clearly zero contact between her and Collins.
This is how I saw it too. Kind of surprised Soles would protest as his runner caused the pile up. Did he want to get Robinson DQed?
It wouldn't have changed the results for Maxwell, but her coached definitely should have protested to get Collins DQed.
Lastly, did the officials even raise a flag after the falls? You figure if they can catch Edison for a lane violation in the 400 relay they should have been able to see what happened on the backstretch leading to the fall.
Robinson clearly didn't trip Collins. Robinson was on the outside already moving past her when Collins tried to move up on the inside and the contact with Maxwell happened. Not sure how anyone could blame Robinson for that -- there was very clearly zero contact between her and Collins.
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So your theory is Destiny tripped on her own shoelaces? When Destiny fell Robinson was not on the outside but in the process of moving to the outside.
Agreed.
4:40ish wrote:
Robinson clearly didn't trip Collins. Robinson was on the outside already moving past her when Collins tried to move up on the inside and the contact with Maxwell happened. Not sure how anyone could blame Robinson for that -- there was very clearly zero contact between her and Collins.
DedicatedRunner wrote:So your theory is Destiny tripped on her own shoelaces? When Destiny fell Robinson was not on the outside but in the process of moving to the outside.
That's genuinely what it looked like. That's even what the announcer said it looked like lol. Robinson was already in the outside lane when the fall happened, and the fall was caused when Collins tried to move up on the slowing Maxwell. It's possible Collins got tripped up in Maxwell's legs or one of them clipped heels with the other, but Robinson was really clearly not part of it.
So now to me it sounds like Robinson didnt do anything??? If thats true (which it seems like), I am in complete relief that she didnt do anything. I feel bad for Maxwell though....I understand its an accident and we will never will be completely sure about who is the true 1600 champ....
Don't high school kids know to run super tactical races at championships? Should have gone out at 85 second pace instead of 65 second pace, and crushed a 2:15 final 800.
4:40ish wrote:
Robinson clearly didn't trip Collins. Robinson was on the outside already moving past her when Collins tried to move up on the inside and the contact with Maxwell happened. Not sure how anyone could blame Robinson for that -- there was very clearly zero contact between her and Collins.
Uceny's Ghost wrote:
This is how I saw it too. Kind of surprised Soles would protest as his runner caused the pile up. Did he want to get Robinson DQed?
It wouldn't have changed the results for Maxwell, but her coached definitely should have protested to get Collins DQed.
Lastly, did the officials even raise a flag after the falls? You figure if they can catch Edison for a lane violation in the 400 relay they should have been able to see what happened on the backstretch leading to the fall.
I agree with this too. Collins was losing ground at the start of the backstretch. Robinson passed Collins on the outside with plenty of room and was clear of her, still in the second lane. Collins struggled to come back and it looked like her efforts were exceeding the ability of her feet to keep up. Then the feed froze, and the next view was Armstrong tumbling on the ground. Robinson was still on the outside of the others and continued on for the win.
The fall happened 15 meters from me . With 250 meters to go it was Maxwell' Collins, Robinson. Collins slowed a bit and Robinson went wide and made a move , to pass ,Collins tried to respond and stumbled going down and clipping Maxwell from behind. Robinson made no contact and went right bye. Collins got up and resumed chase and took second while Maxwell went down face first and I'm sure was stunned, got up and finished well back. Kudos to all three. Maxwell came back and ran 2:08 , Robinson 10:12 and Collins was 4th. In that heat awesome effort by the ladies.
while i'm more likely to believe the eyewitness report above as opposed to the choppy video feed i watched, my first impression was that robinson MAY have tripped up collins, who clearly tripped up maxwell. i'll have to assume without any facts that that is what coach soles may have been protesting since this would have led to destiny being the winner (i am NOT saying he did this just to get his athlete the win, but i'm supposing he may have believed a real infraction occurred by someone other than his athlete). however, here are a few facts (ok, some of the facts are only fact because it's a fact that it's my opinion...) that i'd like to offer:
fact: maxwell didn't "sow any seeds" to her defeat by going out in 65! how anyone can surmise this led directly to her falling doesn't sound like they have a lot of racing experience.
fact: even being 15 feet away doesn't mean you saw--or didn't see--the cause of the fall. these things happen so fast--you can be IN the race and not know.
fact: watching for infractions in distance races is different than relays, where infractions occur more often in very specific places, so officials tend to be more attentive in relays with exchange zones, or on the turns of sprints when line violations occur. hard to predict when or where there's going to be a fall in a distance race.
fact: you CAN fall without anyone clipping you. funny things happen when you get tired and you're at max effort. not saying this is what happened, but it can happen.
fact: that destiny finished 2nd after falling makes it MORE likely she could have won and works against claims that she was tiring or losing ground. that said, i don't think she would have beaten maxwell, but i'm just surmising like everyone else...
fact: just because you have the best 800 speed, or 400 speed, in a 1600 does NOT mean you will have the best kick. a good kick is a combination of a lot of factors, top-end speed only being one of those factors.
that's my story and i'm sticking to it...
Collins WAS losing ground, which was clearly shown on the video. Even the announcer saw her stumbling on her feet, which does indicate she was tiring. She was tiring. All of the runners were tiring, and Collins ran 4:51, which does not indicate that she could have won.