RE: What do you consider "elite" for every high school track & field event?

Speaking as a former triple jumper in high school and college I think 40' is fairly weak when considering what is "elite".

My high school conference, which was fairly typical IMO to others throughout the country, you wouldn't even place top 10. Let alone make it to state. Long Jump is closer but still a little low.

Just my experience. Maybe there were some good people in my conference and it is a bit skewed.

100 - 10.69

200 - 21.90

400 - 48.20

800 - 1:54.99

1600 - 4:14.50

3200 - 9:10.00

110H - 14.50

300H - 39.50

4z100 - 42.20

4x200 - 1:28.50

4x400 - 3:18.80

4x800 - 7:50.50

Shot Put - 58-00

Discus - 169-00

High Jump - 6-07

Pole Vault - 14-00

Long Jump - 23-00

Triple Jump - 46-00

Most of these marks are guaranteed to get you to state except in some CIF sections, Houston Regionals and Spokane qualifying rounds.

Don't know enough about the sprints to really comment there. But those distance times are definitely too slow to be considered elite. Of course defining elite can be questioned. But 1:59.9? Every decent team in the country has a kid who can do that.

800: 1:55

1600: 4:15

3200: 9:10

I'd say yes for the 1600 boys but the 3200 is too weak. More like 9:49

To be considered nationally elite, I would argue that the athlete must be able to be in contention for a top 3 place in every state. This doesn't mean that their mark is top 3 in every state, but that they would be able to have a pretty good chance at being top 3.

IE. Say top 3 in the 1600 in the toughest state is 4:01, 4:03, 4:08. In order to compete for top 3, they need to be able to compete with the 4:08. Anyone that runs about 4:11 should be in the mix for most of the race (until the final stretch) if the race went out fast.

That is more like it. Still, the 1600 and 3200 are likely not good enough to walk on to teams like USC and UCLA, but some of the times might get you recruited/scholarship at lower D1 schools. Dyestat HAS elite lists, remember.

Let's face it, 1:59 800 is not elite and is not likely to get you much of any interest at the next level. Too many wannabes with ego problems around here .

You never answered the question.

I ran 1:59.7 in grade 12 and even then I was pretty much a 10k guy. Doubt I would have even made it to our regionals meet.

Ugh. Don't states have multiple divisions competing within the state, like A, AA, AAA, or AAAA? These divisions are not competing against each other. There are multiple meets therefore, so states is another way of saying state meets.

If you told me when I was in HS that you were going to state for T&F, I would have thought you were going to run in college, not actually go to a HS meet.

get used to it. wrote:

Ugh. Don't states have multiple divisions competing within the state, like A, AA, AAA, or AAAA? These divisions are not competing against each other. There are multiple meets therefore, so states is another way of saying state meets.

If you told me when I was in HS that you were going to state for T&F, I would have thought you were going to run in college, not actually go to a HS meet.

I believe states is a Northeastern thing. But it's different everywhere which is why statisticians must use the exact terminology that the state organization provides.

In NJ you say "Group Championships". Some states are "State Finals", many in the NE are "States" and for others simply "State" gets the message across. "I made it to state..."

Some states have multiple state meets. In MI there is an LP and UP with 3 or 4 different divisions. In NY there are both "states" and federation meets. In CT there are Class and Open state championships. Many other states have Meets of Champions for all divisions which comes after the division/class/group championships.

Just as my handle suggests, state competitions have regional dialect variations.

And in a state like OK, small and large divisions are run on separate days and at different venues.

[quote]coach d wrote:

...Still, the 1600 and 3200 are likely not good enough to walk on to teams like USC and UCLA, but some of the times might get you recruited/scholarship at lower D1 schools. Dyestat HAS elite lists, remember.

quote]

What?!? UCLA, the better distance school of the two mentioned, would absolutely take a 4:14/9:10 kid. As a matter of fact the roster is currently full of them. They have landed a few sub 9:00 guys in recent years, but for the most part Braden has been building his group with that exact type of athlete.

Elite is top 20 in the country I'd say. In 2013 that meant

(Guys)

100- 10.53

200- 21.10

400- 47.20

800- 1:51.13

1600- 4:08.93 (mile)

3200- 8:57.07

110H- 13.98

300H- 37.22

4x100- 41.18

4x400- 3:16.04

Shotput- 49 to 50 feet

Discus- 140 feet

High Jump- 6'11

Pole Vault- 16-4

Long jump- 23-10.75

Triple jump- 48-6.75

now collapse wrote:

Elite is top 20 in the country I'd say. In 2013 that meant

(Guys)

100- 10.53

200- 21.10

400- 47.20

800- 1:51.13

1600- 4:08.93 (mile)

3200- 8:57.07

110H- 13.98

300H- 37.22

4x100- 41.18

4x400- 3:16.04

Shotput- 49 to 50 feet

Discus- 140 feet

High Jump- 6'11

Pole Vault- 16-4

Long jump- 23-10.75

Triple jump- 48-6.75

Sorry, forgot the shot (61-10) and discus (192-1)

So, considering event overlap, you contend that about 200 kids each year are elite. How many high school football players each year are elite? 1000? At least that many are power conference recruits. The NFL drafts over 200 per year.

I consider "nationally elite" to be ~top 100 in an event nationally.

Chris Moore wrote:

So, considering event overlap, you contend that about 200 kids each year are elite. How many high school football players each year are elite? 1000? At least that many are power conference recruits. The NFL drafts over 200 per year.

Good question.

There were 1.1M boys playing high school football last year and 0.6M boys participating in track and field. So maybe ~400 high school football players are elite by the same definition.

I would venture to say elite would be qualifying for NBON in the championship division and therefore their standards are the cutoffs. Now a different way to view elite is what would it take to be recruited to a D1 university on more than just a books scholarship. I think it is safe to say marks like these will do the trick:

100- 10.70

200- 21.55

400- 47.80

800- 1:52.90

1600- 4:14.90

3200- 9:09.00

110h- 14.25

300h- 38.10

SP- 53'5

D- 160'0

J- 180'0

PV- 15'6

LJ- 23'0

TJ- 46'0

HJ- 6'8

Look at this way. If you want to be an elite HS boy, you need to NEVER EVER get chicked. That means you need to be able to beat the seasonal best mark for women in your event. With that in mind, I don't think any of those marks would be elite.