Or will Special endurance and extensive tempo suffice?
Or will Special endurance and extensive tempo suffice?
Isn't he a sprint coach?
parrot d doesn't have any independent or original thoughts on training, all he does is blindly follow what other coaches do
Yes they do. The 800m is over 50% aerobic. Just because some fast twitch runners are not good distance runners, does not mean that they shouldn't still work on their aerobic system as much as possible. The volume they run should depend on how mjuch they can handle - not on how well they can run longer distances.
What tends to be the general consensus on properly training the aerobic system for a 400/800 runner who needs to improve basic speed: low volume, high quality, or higher volume at easier paces? Which causes less interference with speed development sessions while maintaining & improving endurance ( cost vs. benefit)?
800m Coach wrote:
Yes they do. The 800m is over 50% aerobic. Just because some fast twitch runners are not good distance runners, does not mean that they shouldn't still work on their aerobic system as much as possible. The volume they run should depend on how mjuch they can handle - not on how well they can run longer distances.
Guess what—running at 800m pace is more "aerobic" than volume running.
Wncmtnrnr wrote:
Or will Special endurance and extensive tempo suffice?
why would you ask coach d???
Training regimens for 400m/800m types are notoriously variable and contingent upon the athlete in question. This is very much a territory of training where what works for one athlete does not necessarily work for another.
The other important distinction to make, though, is what "distance running volume" is being used for: is it being used to condition the athlete for the endurance requirements of the race itself, or is it being used to condition the athlete for training sessions that are themselves geared to prepare the athlete for the aerobic/anaerobic demands of the race?
In some cases, the answer may very well be both, but it's important to keep this distinction in mind. Often, people think of all training as oriented to the demands of the race, but it's rarely so simple.
I agree. I think a big part of Bud Winter's off-season long distance for 400 guys (up to 10 miles?!?!) was essentially just "training to be able to train". I've read guys like Evans did summer work at the two furthest ends of the spectrum (short sprints, weight training, and distance jogging) to prep their bodies for more specific training phases.
That said, I am just questioning how aerobic work should be implemented into a training schedule. For me, I have ran longer distances for several years, and lost a LOT of speed. So, this post is a little specific to me, but I would like to hear about the general approach to aerobic development training in these events which have a pretty large share of both anaerobic and aerobic energy systems coming into play.
Coach D is smart, but his fastest 400 guy isn't close to Johnson or Wariner.
Johnson and Wariner both did medium length runs and interval training, OP.
The last few 800m WR holders had extensive distance training.
To be the best you can be you have to do it all, endurance aerobic/special endurance, power, speed endurance and weights/plyos.
Go pick up a book by Clyde Hart or David Martin/Peter Coe.
You can lose your keys, but you cannot lose speed. It may be unused (not sharp) but unless your 800 is the same time as eight times your 100- it is not speed you are lacking, but endurance/stamina. Remember you speed changes- I am not as fast now at 50 years old as I was when I was 20, speed is very age, physical conditioning specific.
Isn't a 400/800 runner better at 400m and their second race is the 800 rather than the 200?
Therefore, I think you may be interest in 800/400 training as opposed to 800/1500m training like the last few 800 WR holders.
Maybe for most, but in my case I am 21 and my 100m time is slower than when I was 15.
They do need it for endurance but you must still focus on there speed as well
K{Mraibg%# wrote:
Isn't a 400/800 runner better at 400m and their second race is the 800 rather than the 200?
Therefore, I think you may be interest in 800/400 training as opposed to 800/1500m training like the last few 800 WR holders.
Do you or Big Fat Texas Runner have any information about Kipketer's training or Rudisha's training? You have stated that they trained like 800/1500 runners or with extensive distance training.
Harry Carey wrote:
Training regimens for 400m/800m types are notoriously variable and contingent upon the athlete in question. This is very much a territory of training where what works for one athlete does not necessarily work for another.
The other important distinction to make, though, is what "distance running volume" is being used for: is it being used to condition the athlete for the endurance requirements of the race itself, or is it being used to condition the athlete for training sessions that are themselves geared to prepare the athlete for the aerobic/anaerobic demands of the race?
In some cases, the answer may very well be both, but it's important to keep this distinction in mind. Often, people think of all training as oriented to the demands of the race, but it's rarely so simple.
Very good response. If you feel a aerobic/distance approach does't work for you go and experiment with other regimes. But speed is a natural thing, I ran my best 400m (50sec) and 800m (1:54) after a maxing out 130mpw in base training and running as little as 25mpw during racing season - I know my times aren't the fastest and my mileage is probably higher than most 800m athletes but I like experimenting and pushing myself (I'm not a 800m specialist, but it is my favorite event and the one I race the most). So I'm at the complete other end of the spectrum in terms of volume. I think every kind of training (aerobic & anaerobic) has its place depending the time of season. Maybe you're timing just isn't right. Just my opinion...
Ooops, forgot Kipketer. Following up on the Rudisha thread from 2010 I remembered, you know more than I do.
SlowFatMaster wrote:
K{Mraibg%# wrote:Isn't a 400/800 runner better at 400m and their second race is the 800 rather than the 200?
Therefore, I think you may be interest in 800/400 training as opposed to 800/1500m training like the last few 800 WR holders.
Do you or Big Fat Texas Runner have any information about Kipketer's training or Rudisha's training? You have stated that they trained like 800/1500 runners or with extensive distance training.
Well Nijel Amos and Andre Olivier train like a 800/1500m endurance type guys and both recently ran 400m pb's - 45:56 for Amos and 46:81 for Oliver. Not world record holders but I'm sure their credentials are well known...
A world class 800m runner could get by on 40mpw max.
Any link to Amos and Olivier's training? I see that John Verster is or was their coach but I could not find anything about how they train.