USATF: Congrats on qualifying marks, add this and you're set

The standards are here: http://www.usatf.org/Events---Calendar/2014/USATF-Outdoor-Championships/Qualifying.aspx

The problem is they like ambiguity as that means John Chaplin can end up doing whatever he feels like.

But there should be very little ambiguity. If your questions were answered, most elites would be fine with USATF.

I'll try to address some of your questions, make a few observations:

1) The standards listed appear to be "A" standards. It says "A" standard for men but in a typo doesn't for women. So if you hit the "A" you are automatically in. The field size is what they want to get to if not enough people hit the the "A".

2) I don't know about that but USATF should clearly state now how they will draw up the heats - what times will be used this year's or last.

3) This also needs to be addressed and very specifically.

4) #4 is key in my mind. There is no mention of it anywhere.

I personally think they should get away with the "A" standard and just do it like the NCAA does. But i mentioned that to a few elites and they say the like the 'A' standard because it's expensive to make travel plans and they want to know 100% for sure they are in.

I'd maybe address that by locking the top 24 people for a 32 person field 3 weeks out.

QUALIFYING WINDOWS:

June 20, 2013 to June 15, 2014 – (indoor and outdoor competitions)

January 3, 2013 to June 15, 2014 – (10,000m, 20 km race walks, decathlon and heptathlon)

2014 Senior Women Qualifying Standards

Event Standard Field Size

100m 11.25* 32

200m 23.00* 28

400m 52.15* 28

800m 2:04.00 32

1,500m 4:13.00 30

Mile 4:34.00

5,000m 15:26.00 24

10,000m 32:58.00 24

20 km RW 1:52.00 18

10 km RW 54:00

5 km RW 26:00

100m Hurdles 13.10* 32

400m Hurdles 56.31* 28

3000m SC 9:55.00 26

High Jump 1.90 (6-2.75) 18

Pole Vault 4.50 (14 - 9) 18

Long Jump 6.55 (21-6) 18

Triple Jump 13.40 (43-11 3/4) 18

Shot Put 17.40 (57-1) 18

Discus Throw 56.50 (185-4) 18

Hammer Throw 66.00 (216-6) 18

Javelin Throw 53.00 (173-10) 18

Heptathlon 5900 16

2014 Senior Men Qualifying Standards

Event A Standard Field Size

100m 10.20* 32

200m 20.60* 28

400m 45.70* 28

800m 1:47.50* 32

1,500m 3:39.00 30

Mile 3:56.50

5,000m 13:32.00 24

10,000m 28:30.00 24

20 km RW 1:39:50 18

10 km RW 48:20.00

5 km RW 23:30.00

110m Hurdles 13.65* 32

400m Hurdles 50.50* 28

3000m SC 8:40.00 26

High Jump 2.25 (7-4.5) 18

Pole Vault 5.60 (18-4.5) 18

Long Jump 7.95 (26-1) 18

Triple Jump 16.30 (53-5 3/4) 18

Shot Put 20.00 (65-7 1/2) 18

Discus Throw 61.00 (200-1) 18

Hammer Throw 69.00 (226-4) 18

Javelin Throw 74.50 (244-5) 18

Decathlon 7800 16

Notes:

1. The Sport Committee Chair may adjust the standards, where necessary, forty-five days prior to the competition, based on received entries at that time. Therefore, early submission of an entry close to the standards is advised.

2. The Sport Committee will use the field size number only if there are insufficient number of athletes entered who have met the qualifying standard for that event. In this case, the committee will go down the list of entered and declared athletes only as deep as is needed to fill the field.

Qualifying Guidelines for Senior Championships

1. All qualifying performances for running events may be made on an indoor or outdoor track for the outdoor championships. There are no allowances for altitude, nor for indoor facilities of differing size, banking or other configuration.

2. Qualifying marks must be made in accordance with USATF Rule 149 and verifiable in one of the following: 1. USATF or IAAF sanctioned events which prescribe to or exceed USATF competition rules

2. Events at collegiate meets which prescribe to or exceed USATF competition rules.

3. High school meets, but not dual or triangular meets, which prescribe to or exceed USATF competition rules.

4. Meets or events which meet a minimum for competitiveness as set by the Chair of the Sport Committee and determined to be valid by the USATF National Office staff member responsible for verification.

3. This is an annual Championship which requires qualification within a specific period of time. Qualifying marks from outdoor competitions must be attained on or after Thursday, June 20, 2013 through Sunday, June 15, 2014. Qualifying marks from indoor competitions must be attained within the same time period. Qualifying marks for the 10,000-meters, Race Walk, and Combined Events must be attained on or after Thursday, January 3, 2013 through Sunday, June 15, 2014.

4. * F.A.T. is the only method of timing acceptable for qualifying marks for events listed with an asterisk. Times submitted in hundredths of a second, must be fully automatic times.

5. A manual time may be used for qualifying in all other running events only if no fully automatic qualifying time exists for the individual in that event during the qualifying period. A manual time may not supersede any fully automatic qualifying time for an event.

6. women - Qualifying manual times, for eligible events, are the F.A.T. qualifying time without the last zero for events 200m and longer; the F.A.T. time minus 0.14 for events 400m - 1 Mile.

7. men - Qualifying manual times, for eligible events, not already listed, are always the F.A.T. qualifying time without the last zero.

8. Manual times will be converted for seeding purposes using USATF Rule 166.

9. All performances are subject to verification by USATF National Office representative and/or USATF statisticians.

10. Wind-aided marks are not acceptable for qualifying for the National Championship.

m 5000 25 already have a Q

m10000 9 already have a Q 28:58.92 is 24th from the 2013 list

Why would USATF choose a field size of 28 for events (200, 400) that are run in lanes? Presumably you have to have 4 heats anyway.

For the 1500 there is a field size of 30--will they have two heats of 15? Usually I think they want field size of no more than 12, so they would have 3 heats of 10 instead of letting 5 more qualifiers in?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Why would USATF choose a field size of 28 for events (200, 400) that are run in lanes? Presumably you have to have 4 heats anyway.

For the 1500 there is a field size of 30--will they have two heats of 15? Usually I think they want field size of no more than 12, so they would have 3 heats of 10 instead of letting 5 more qualifiers in?

IAAF Rule 166 dictates that in a 1500m where there are between 16 and 30 entrants, there will be two heats and a final, with the first four finishers in each heat and the next four fastest non-automatic qualifiers advancing to the final.

If the field has 31-45 entrants, a semi-final is mandated, and since non-Olympic Trials editions of the US Championships are just a few days long, that isn't sensible.

+ 100,0000

Augusto E. Perez wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Why would USATF choose a field size of 28 for events (200, 400) that are run in lanes? Presumably you have to have 4 heats anyway.

For the 1500 there is a field size of 30--will they have two heats of 15? Usually I think they want field size of no more than 12, so they would have 3 heats of 10 instead of letting 5 more qualifiers in?

IAAF Rule 166 dictates that in a 1500m where there are between 16 and 30 entrants, there will be two heats and a final, with the first four finishers in each heat and the next four fastest non-automatic qualifiers advancing to the final.

If the field has 31-45 entrants, a semi-final is mandated, and since non-Olympic Trials editions of the US Championships are just a few days long, that isn't sensible.

Thanks, that makes sense as an explanation, although I thought USATF was able to adopt their own competition rules for things like this. I haven't looked at that document this year so my memory could be faulty. 2 heats of 15 is a lot of bodies on the track but that is not all bad.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Why would USATF choose a field size of 28 for events (200, 400) that are run in lanes? Presumably you have to have 4 heats anyway.

To avoid having to run in lane 1.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

For the 1500 there is a field size of 30--will they have two heats of 15? Usually I think they want field size of no more than 12, so they would have 3 heats of 10 instead of letting 5 more qualifiers in?

I agree that historically the # they let in makes no rational sense. It needs to be done based on how many rounds they are running. More for the OTrials than a regular US champs if there are more rounds.

rojo wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Why would USATF choose a field size of 28 for events (200, 400) that are run in lanes? Presumably you have to have 4 heats anyway.

To avoid having to run in lane 1.

5 lanes left

5 trial heats =25 oops

6 trial heats =30 oops

rojo wrote:

The problem is they like ambiguity as that means John Chaplin can end up doing whatever he feels like.

Chaplin hasn't been involved since 2012. He's out.

simple math it ain't wrote:

rojo wrote:

To avoid having to run in lane 1.

5 lanes left

5 trial heats =25 oops

6 trial heats =30 oops

8 lanes on a standard OUTDOOR

First round avoiding lane one

4 races with 7 pick 1&2 to advance to an 8 person final

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Why would USATF choose a field size of 28 for events (200, 400) that are run in lanes? Presumably you have to have 4 heats anyway.

For the 1500 there is a field size of 30--will they have two heats of 15? Usually I think they want field size of no more than 12, so they would have 3 heats of 10 instead of letting 5 more qualifiers in?

Because in lane one, the curve is too sharp, you can't go fast enough, and you have no chance unless you are considerably faster than the top 4 in preferential lanes. This is also a problem in the 800. It CAN be a problem in the 100, not from the turns, but because you can't see/feel the major competitors: Bolt almost lost one DL race because he couldn't see a fast competitor in lane 8.

Is the men's mile standard faster than the 1500m standard?

isitjustme wrote:

Is the men's mile standard faster than the 1500m standard?

3'39 x 1.08 = 3'56.52

Faster by 2 hundredths

What do you think is.... a professional sport?! Get those questions out of here!!!

I was in meetings where these were discussed by Ed and Sue at the USATF Annual Meeting, so let me try to relay what I heard. John Chaplin is not involved in any way, Ed Gorman has replaced him.

1. Maximum, unless more than that number meet the Q.

2. You enter your best mark. Sometimes they do seeding based on 2014 marks only, I'm not sure if that is the case here.

3. Only the alternate events listed on the qualifying standards like the mile for the 1500. I mean I can't ever say for sure when a committee chair will just decide on a whim to let someone random in, but Ed swears he isn't going to be like John in that regard...

4. No. The fields will not be filled if there are scratches. The field sizes were expanded in several events to accommodate scratches. For example, last year 18 men were accepted in the 5k, this year the target number is 28.

if they had a target number this year that is 10ppl greater than last year, that tells me that they screwed up and tehy know it. as a usatf member, I believe we as stakeholder deserve an explanation. won't ever hold my breath (anyone really believe the "whoops, we forgot we had another appointment- sorry TFAA, we'll do that teleconference soon, we promise" joke of a meeting w/ TFAA will ever actually happen? not me).

I still think 30 is silly for the 1500. I understand the formula of "2 less than the final" type of thing, but we all know there will be scratches, which means we could have a "heat" of 8 guys. dumb, plain and simple.

thanks for all your work Becca, I'd have given up in disgust years ago if i was in your (or any other usatf volunteer) position.

So what if 40 people run under 3:39?

Do they take the top 30 or all 40?

Good question because with the mile and 1500 mark, there are already 34 marks post 6/20/13.