To beat Lagat at worlds people should take it out HARD

For the same reason why they didn't do that with Farah. Most think they have a great sprint finish. They do but Farah had a better one.

Who?

That's what she said.

he has the strength to hang in it even at a brutal pace

Luckily for Lagat, the Gebrs are moronic racers. They will try to sit and kick and Lagat will dust them all on the last lap. 7:49 FTW. Those fools.

Yeah, I was going to do that but I didn't make it to worlds.

No one's dumb enough to take it out hard and let the others sit on them.

And no one's that much better than the rest of the world to just run away.

Kenya got a medal in the 5 and 10 last year. That's good.

They weren't going to beat Farah at any pace.

I fully understand why the Ethiopians did what they did in the 10000--Bekele past his prime, so they set it up for Jeilan. I think Jailan would have beaten Farah again if he had been healthy and 100% the second time.

The way I see it:

-- A Slow pace favors long distance guys with high sprint speed (Farah, Rupp)

--Lagat is a former 3:26 guy. He has trained most of his career to kick off a fast pace. A hard, honest pace with a 200-300m kick plays into Lagat's hands, not Rupp or others who train for slower paces.

--If you want to beat Lagat, you do what Bekele and El Guerrouj (or Cram) did--ramp it up hard from 600 out. THIS is what I would have done if I was coaching Hill in Albuquerque.

coach d wrote:

I fully understand why the Ethiopians did what they did in the 10000--Bekele past his prime, so they set it up for Jeilan. I think Jailan would have beaten Farah again if he had been healthy and 100% the second time.

The way I see it:

-- A Slow pace favors long distance guys with high sprint speed (Farah, Rupp)

--Lagat is a former 3:26 guy. He has trained most of his career to kick off a fast pace. A hard, honest pace with a 200-300m kick plays into Lagat's hands, not Rupp or others who train for slower paces.

--If you want to beat Lagat, you do what Bekele and El Guerrouj (or Cram) did--ramp it up hard from 600 out. THIS is what I would have done if I was coaching Hill in Albuquerque.

+1 to coach d. The problem with taking it out hard in an unrabbited race is that chances are the one pushing the pace will slack off some in the middle, allowing the kicker to rest, thus leaving it to the finish any way: eg Marty Liquori's commentary on the battle between Bekele and Guerrouj, saying that Bekele should have gone hard from two miles outs, as the race had effectively become a mile race (and who is gonna beat the best Miler in history at that distance?)

I think Galen made a good move trying to go out hard, but he was a little late with it, though in the altitude I dont think he would have handled a longer surge much better.

When Bekele did NOT ramp it up with 600m to go in 2007, Lagat beat him. You CANNOT beat a miler at the miler's game if you're not one of them. They should have learned that in 2004 when they tried to pull that same stunt against El Guerrouj.

I believe Hill could have taken out Rupp if he had gone with 3 laps to go, Bekele style.

coach d wrote:

When Bekele did NOT ramp it up with 600m to go in 2007, Lagat beat him. You CANNOT beat a miler at the miler's game if you're not one of them. They should have learned that in 2004 when they tried to pull that same stunt against El Guerrouj.

I believe Hill could have taken out Rupp if he had gone with 3 laps to go, Bekele style.

Honestly I was a bit surprised that Schumacher thought a fast pace would be good for Hill. He has a great kick, possibly even better than Rupp's, but Rupp has more endurance obviously.

coach d wrote:

You CANNOT beat a miler at the miler's game if you're not one of them.

Kipchoge beat ElGerrouj...

LOL II wrote:

Kipchoge beat ElGerrouj...

And what was the finishing time of the race genius.

Folks' top priority is not beating Lagat. It is maximizing their chances at a medal - hopefully a gold.

Unless you are clearly superior to THE FIELD than you are likely committing suicide by setting a hard pace and letting others draft off of you.

Why is this so hard for you SUPPOSED runners to understand?!?

* wrote:

Kenya got a medal in the 5 and 10 last year. That's good.

They weren't going to beat Farah at any pace.

That's only true if you think no Kenyan was in sub 26:45ish shape. Farah clearly wasn't.

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

Folks' top priority is not beating Lagat. It is maximizing their chances at a medal - hopefully a gold.

Unless you are clearly superior to THE FIELD than you are likely committing suicide by setting a hard pace and letting others draft off of you.

Why is this so hard for you SUPPOSED runners to understand?!?

If Gebremeskel and Gebrhiwet shared the lead (don't know if they'd be willing to agree to that) then it would be possible.

cbenson4 wrote:

But they won't. It will be the same thing. Tactical.

Tactical does not mean slow or wait until the last lap. Going hard from the start is also tactical.

kenyuh wrote:

cbenson4 wrote:

But they won't. It will be the same thing. Tactical.

Tactical does not mean slow or wait until the last lap. Going hard from the start is also tactical.

That is true

coach d wrote:

When Bekele did NOT ramp it up with 600m to go in 2007, Lagat beat him. You CANNOT beat a miler at the miler's game if you're not one of them. They should have learned that in 2004 when they tried to pull that same stunt against El Guerrouj.

I believe Hill could have taken out Rupp if he had gone with 3 laps to go, Bekele style.

What the hell are you talking about? Bekele wasn't even in the 5000m at the 2007 WC.

And guess what? Two years later in Berlin Bekele leaves it to the bell and barely manages to hold off Lagat with a 53 last lap.

It's rarely about taking it out hard from a specific distance. Whoever is the best runner is most likely going to win no matter what you do.

cbenson4 wrote:

coach d wrote:

When Bekele did NOT ramp it up with 600m to go in 2007, Lagat beat him. You CANNOT beat a miler at the miler's game if you're not one of them. They should have learned that in 2004 when they tried to pull that same stunt against El Guerrouj.

I believe Hill could have taken out Rupp if he had gone with 3 laps to go, Bekele style.

Honestly I was a bit surprised that Schumacher thought a fast pace would be good for Hill. He has a great kick, possibly even better than Rupp's, but Rupp has more endurance obviously.

what makes you think it was schumacher's decision? bumbi went out hard, and his buddies followed him.

and hill had just run 7:34, so he definitely couldve handled it.