i guess it has been discussed before:
i guess it has been discussed before:
damned me and my calves. well the ladies like em.
Please not another bs thread about how Kenyans are faster because they have skinnier legs. What about Bekele or Shihene? Their thighs and calves are bigger than even Broes.
But it must be true if someone wrote it!
I worked with John Entine for a couple of years at NBC. He's a fraud. He will use info that suits his agendas, and ignore info that doesn't. Which is typical, but dishonest. He's also a guy who hates the West in many ways. He just wants to discourage white guys. That's all.
Don't know about the guy who wrote the article, but I tend to agree that skinny calves allow for faster distance running. More importantly, it's where the center of mass fits on the leg. Even the ones with large theighs carry most of the bulk very high on the leg, thus having a large strength to moment of inertia ratio (typical of ecto-morphs).
Please explain Bekele to me. And Shihene. They do not have skinny calves at all. As mentioned , both have larger calves than Broe, Kennedy, Riley. So why arent the americans better. Great runners come in all sizes, and go to any local road race and check out the runners with skinny calves and thighs- many, if not most - are no where near the front.
Throw Meb in that category as well. Much stronger, larger quads and calves than most- especially Culpepper .
Baldini- strong runner , strong calves, strong legs
Meb- same as Baldini- not quite as big though
Lima- Skinnier
Leg size doesnt dictate faster running amonst runners.
Ryan Shay- bigger guy, top us half marathon runner this year.
Size doesn't matter. I know a number of larger dudes, both in leg size and body size, that routinely beat skinnier guys who train just as well.
Alan
I looked at some pics of bekele. I don't think his calves are all that big. More importantly, if you look closely, the bulk of his calves are very high on the lower leg.
http://www.101lifestyle.com/celebs/kenenisa_bekele.html
Now, compare that with..say...Frank Zane.
Just by eye-balling it, I'd say that Zane's upper calves (can't remember what you call the upper calve muscle.....soleus?)begin about half way up his lower leg. Bekele, on the other hand, begins about 3/4 up the leg.
High calves are not THE determining factor in distance running, but they certainly help (I know I love mine).
-Barry
Again, leg size is not THE determining factor. Of all the elite athletes that you mentioned, I'd say that NONE of them have what I'd consider to be "large" leg muscles. They are large for elite distance runners. Their legs are still much skinnier than your average man (and much much skinnier than...say...a foot ball player (they don't do very well in the distances)).
My argument is (and I have no proof, so just read it and take it into consideration) that really big muscles are bad. Also, muscles that extend lower on the leg are also bad.
I can't help wondering if living and training at altitudes of 7000-9000ft give an advantage in the 10000m more than any other event.
Or is it more to do with the fact that Kenyans and Ethiopians tend to specialise more in that distance.
Ethiopians for example do not dominate events below 5000m.
As for East African sprinters, do they have a lack of oportunities that hold them back, compared to West African sprinters?
runningart2004 wrote:
Size doesn't matter. I know a number of larger dudes, both in leg size and body size, that routinely beat skinnier guys who train just as well.
Alan
It's true, just like I know a number of guys who were so so in school that routinely chubby guys who ran 4:20 as a high school sophomore.
BarryP wrote:
I looked at some pics of bekele. I don't think his calves are all that big. More importantly, if you look closely, the bulk of his calves are very high on the lower leg.
Now, compare that with..say...Frank Zane.
Why would we compare Bekele to Zane? What would that teach us? Zane is bodybuilder. Of course he can't run fast. Has very little to do with his calves.
This idea that Bekele is big and has big legs is one of the funnier things I have come across in awhile, but yet many believe it. Why? Because on his tiny, tiny frame (what is he, 5'5" 120 ??) his legs muscles are a bit more pronounced than compared to the REALLY skinny Africans like Tergat, or Yuda, etc. And furthermore, Bek has a LITTLE more muscles development than say Geb. So because of those comparisons (his legs vs his own really small frame, his legs vs the size of the legs of some other really skinny Africans), he is now considered to have "big" muscles. TOO funny. The reality? His is a tiny, tiny, little waif-like elf compared to the average human male. I would look like Hulk friggin Hogan next to him. And most like look at me as a skinny runner dude (which I basically am).
My point? Bek is NOT big, and does not have large leg muscles. Like most really great international distance runners(I am talking 3000 meters and up. And yes, there will ALWAYS be exceptions), he is a little guy with fairly skinny legs (yes, he has some definition). If you are taller like Tergat, than you better be REALLY skinny. Someone mentioned Baldini and Meb? How much do they weigh??? They are not big either(look it up). Being little (or being light) is a advantage to being a distance runner.....PERIOD (and yes, there will always be an exception or two for sure. But such exceptions do NOT make generalities untrue). Ryan Shay is big, but it is to his disadvantage. AND...he is not nearly in the same league as the best runners of the world. I remember watching the 10,000 from Brussles where Geb ran 26:30 last year (and Kemboi was right behind him), and it was too funny to see this idea at work. At the front of the pack (it was a big field), were all the tiny, amazingly skinny Africans (there were lots of them). At the back?? All the big white guys. These guys looked like GIANTS compared to the East Africans! Dan Browne looked like a line-backer or...maybe even the Pillsbury dough-boy compared to them. And all these giants got destroyed. Now I am well aware of the success and height of Mottram this year, but again: exceptions to the rule do not make the general rule untrue. The question is NOT can a bigger guy ever beat a smaller guy (of course it can happen) or can a white guy ever beat an East African (of course he can), but the question is: why is it that NINE TIMES OUT OF TEN the East African beats the white distance runner, and 9 times out of ten the small guy (who is often the East African) beats the bigger guy? Clearly being small/light helps and being born East African REALLY helps.
Now as far as the skinny calf theory? There may be something to it, BUT....I would not say it is the KEY to understanding the East Africans dominance in distance running. There are other genetic factors at work which can explain that advantage more clearly. But there is some logic, I would say, to the idea that having less weight to pull through during the swing phase of the running stride would be an advantage. But I don't think it is THE MAIN advantage that they have.
Deek,
Pinto,
Seko,
Barrios,
Morishita,
Huang (o.c. in 1992),
in fact a lot of the oriental runners,
Herb Lindsey,
Kuts,
Chataway,
can't think of many more, not that many.
Skinny calves are not a significant advantage... it may be a characteristic shared by many top African runners, but it is certainly not why they dominate