Pretty much every DQ for obstruction I've heard of resulted in an actual fall.
Pretty much every DQ for obstruction I've heard of resulted in an actual fall.
Here's an example:
HardLoper wrote:
Pretty much every DQ for obstruction I've heard of resulted in an actual fall.
Exactly, if she fell that would be one thing. The minimal contact had NO impact on the outcome. Not that it matters much but the fact is Hasay was already out of it before the contact (maybe before the race even started) and she and everyone else with a brain knows it. J.R. is high. And yes, it's time to move on.
Just one more thing I'd like to add; We're not only talking about two female runners in a race. We're talking about representing not only the running community but the USA. With all due respect does anyone think we have a better chance of winning with the girl who clearly got smoked in the race or the person that finished that race like a true champion?
If we had to chose right now based on that race I'd want GG over Hasay representing our country no question about it.
This was considered incidental
I agree with an above poster. Letsrun has been reminding me a little bit of those gossip magazines we all see when buying groceries at a local supermarket. Exaggerate details and over-hype a situation merely through one point of view.
Everyone here was dropping hateful and resentful language toward Jordan Hasay until an open-minded few here on letsrun.com started to counter that hateful language. Thank god people are now seeing that she is innocent in all this.
This also reminds me of the Alan Webb episode when he threw his "temper tantrum" some years ago and letsrun depicted him as a middle-school crybaby, here they depict Salazar as being a raging and psychopathic lunatic with all the headline quotes they insist on putting up.
Great job, Wejo! Sometimes I feel like you add to the fire.
Ok, it now seems pretty certain the official got confused and meant to DQ Ryan Hill and not Andrew Bumbalough in the men's 3k. I've heard a few people post that Gabriele Grunewald should have been DQd.
My reaction after watching both videos is "Absolutely not a DQ."My second reaction is "I've never seen someone DQd for something similar to whay both the officials tried to DQ Grunewald and Hill for."My challenge to the people who believe in the DQ for either/both runners is post past examples (video preferred) of any pro race where people were DQd for such incidental contact. I can come up with a bunch of examples where people aren't DQd for siilar and much more egregious contact but I'd like to see at least one example for where they were.If you haven't seen the races:Gif of men's 3k here:Full video at 5:40 mark here:Women's 3k at 10:09 hereTyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:
Wejo, is the Dubya English you're speaking? Because I am having trouble deciphering it.
I agree it was awful writing. I've edited. As a twin, I know what he meant to say.
-Robert
PS.I am trying to keep this on topic so we have deleted posts re-hashing whether Grunewald DQ was technically legal or not. Our question is - have you every seen a similar action results in a DQ?
From a friend of Salazar's:
http://tonireavis.com/2014/02/26/when-the-shoe-doesnt-fit/#more-9923rojo wrote:
I am trying to keep this on topic so we have deleted posts re-hashing whether Grunewald DQ was technically legal or not. Our question is - have you every seen a similar action results in a DQ?
Yes, I have seen many cases of this, so it doesn't surprise me that Grunewald was DQ'd.
Buffalo Soldier wrote:
From a friend of Salazar's:
http://tonireavis.com/2014/02/26/when-the-shoe-doesnt-fit/#more-9923
Great post. I hadn't seen that. Reavis is a friend of Salazar and he totally admits the DQ was absurd.
Toni Reavis:
Certainly, given the evidence available to anyone who watched that race, or has ever spent any time racing or watching indoor meets over the years, there was nothing vaguely suggestive of a foul, much less cause for disqualification.
and
But getting back to the perception of impropriety and favoritism. Based on the extra, third appeal that finally found in favor of Alberto’s athlete Jordan Hasay — after the initial protest and subsequent appeal by Salazar had been denied — ask yourself if the roles had been reversed and Coach Dennis Barker of Team USA Minnesota would have wanted another bite of the appeal apple after his initial protest and appeal had been turned down, would that appeal have been forthcoming? Not likely, is my guess.
J.R. wrote:
rojo wrote:I am trying to keep this on topic so we have deleted posts re-hashing whether Grunewald DQ was technically legal or not. Our question is - have you every seen a similar action results in a DQ?
Yes, I have seen many cases of this, so it doesn't surprise me that Grunewald was DQ'd.
At the pro level? And if so, links?
lade da wrote:
I agree with an above poster. Letsrun has been reminding me a little bit of those gossip magazines we all see when buying groceries at a local supermarket. Exaggerate details and over-hype a situation merely through one point of view.
Everyone here was dropping hateful and resentful language toward Jordan Hasay until an open-minded few here on letsrun.com started to counter that hateful language. Thank god people are now seeing that she is innocent in all this.
This also reminds me of the Alan Webb episode when he threw his "temper tantrum" some years ago and letsrun depicted him as a middle-school crybaby, here they depict Salazar as being a raging and psychopathic lunatic with all the headline quotes they insist on putting up.
Great job, Wejo! Sometimes I feel like you add to the fire.
Why can't you be reasonable like Toni Reavis and call a spade a spade?
Instead you want to shoot the messenger. I had fun haning out with Alan Webb last weekend. I should have asked him about his tantrum. A guy gets upset, acts like a brat and it's wrong for us to report it? No it's not.
I don't think we are overdoing our coverage on this. Basically what we had last weekend was the attempted fixing - not necessarily intentional but people just blinded by Salazar - of not one but two national championship races. It doesn't get much bigger than that.
Again though people, we want people to post examples of similar amounts of contact that have resulted in DQs. We believe they don't exist.
HardLoper wrote:
J.R. wrote:Yes, I have seen many cases of this, so it doesn't surprise me that Grunewald was DQ'd.
At the pro level? And if so, links?
Please don't rehash whether you think Grunewald's DQ was technically correct or not. The question is, have YOU ever seen a similar action resulting in a Disqualification.
I have seen such things happen many times, and rightfully so.
rojo wrote:
Basically what we had last weekend was the attempted fixing - not necessarily intentional but people just blinded by Salazar - of not one but two national championship races. It doesn't get much bigger than that.
I've seen, heard and read about many instances of coaches protesting fouls, including flagrant fouls, even in high school. It didn't occur to me that they were trying to "fix" the races, but simply following the normal procedures.
To the contrary, I think people who foul, condone fouls, and suggest causing fouls (i.e. the women's 1500m the next day, are the ones who try to fix the races by interfering with competitors.
I agree that what happened last weekend was a disturbing event for the sport. That said (I know this is off-topic), in terms of reporting information, I believe you guys sometimes overdo it. It's fine to report the information and want to get to the bottom of something, etc.. As track and field enthusiasts, that's exactly what we want. We want all of the information, every single detail.. The problem is that you often report information with very obvious emotion and bias. Consistently revealing this bias/emotion, in my opinion, lessens your credibility as reporters and makes this site seem a little more tabloid-esque. Sometimes I can't tell if your goal for this site is for it to be a reliable resource for track and field news or for it to be a platform for enacting change in the sport. Personally, I'd prefer to just get the information. I can form opinions and get outraged about something on my own. I don't need it to be embedded in the writing of the story. That being said, I generally enjoy what I read here and appreciate the work that you do.
I've seen high school officials DQ runners for this sort of contact a handful of times. I've never ever seen it done at the NCAA D1 level or professional and Olympic level.
And as far as this incident I can only see minimal contact initiated by Gruenwald when she passed Hasay and there was a clip which knocked Hasay's stride and Hasay mentally quit at that point late in the race.
Its track. A race isn't like the NBA when you call a foul, stop the clock, give a penalty, and start it over.
That's the way its always been but doesn't mean track officiating in mid-distance races historically overlook rule book violations that don't flagrantly affect the outcome of the race.
If Hasay was still on her feet and not knocked down she was still able to regroup and compete. Unintentional contact happens all the time. The problem is Hasay was in the clear starting her kick and a runner from behind (that could have have moved out wider and still passed her) didn't and I dont't know the rules but that was probably a violation.
Just because it never gets called doesn't mean Salazar didn't have the right to protest that. And I know it took Nike influence to overturn the official ruling.
J.R. wrote:
HardLoper wrote:At the pro level? And if so, links?
Please don't rehash whether you think Grunewald's DQ was technically correct or not. The question is, have YOU ever seen a similar action resulting in a Disqualification.
I have seen such things happen many times, and rightfully so.
Actually the topic is "Post Examples of DQs," which you don't seem to have.
So we are 15 posts in and don't have a single example.
jewbacca wrote:
And now for my challenge:
Write a decent article.
Yours have been so full of hearsay and 2nd-hand accounts, it's laughable. Your "Most Popular Single Day" article reads like a 9/11-was-an-inside-job piece.
Again people we are looking for examples - not talk about extraneous stuff, but I'll respond to your post, let it stand for 30 minutes and then delete your post and mine (assuming you've read it by then).
2nd hand accounts? I talked to 3 people.
1) Justin Grunewald - eyewitness
2) Dennis Barker - eyewitness
3) Paul Doyle - employs the eyewitness.
I don't think I had any hearsay in there at all.
I'm quite proud of the story. Weldon looked up the stats and said it's nearly twice as popular as any sports story story in the Ft. Worth newspaper for all of 2013.
No video but it's described here.
HardLoper wrote:
Pretty much every DQ for obstruction I've heard of resulted in an actual fall.
Steve Holman was DQd in the 1500m at the 1997 outdoor Nationals although no one hit the ground. He was trapped in a box on the back straight of the last lap and pushed people out of his way. He finished second on the track but did not go to Worlds.
Although the story mentions Shannon Lemora, it was actually Karl Paranya who was leading at the time and took the brunt of the contact.
Someone probably has the video. Here is a news link.
http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1997/Officials-disqualify-Holmon-in-1-500-final/id-b4e9463405f43e3ffd3ba6d3daf5a1d2