Serious question: Why did Alan Webb go from great to, well, terrible so early?

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Many people are "...fast & loose..." when posting on Message Boards. Many will do anything to make THEIR point ... to hell with the facts.

HardLoper is a perfect case in point. He says: "Just for fun, here are the top 10 1500 performers in 2007..."

He must have decided to create his own Top 10 1500 list as they bear no resemblance to the list published by the Bible of the Sport: Track & Field News. Here's the T&FN 1500 Listing for 2007:

1500 METERS

1. Daniel Komen (Kenya)

2. Bernard Lagat (US)

3. Tarek Boukensa (Algeria)

4. Mehdi Baala (France)

5. Rashid Ramzi (Bahrain)

6. Alan Webb (US)

7. Shadrack Korir (Kenya)

8. Augustine Choge (Kenya)

9. Asbel Kiprop (Kenya)

10. Suleiman Simotwo (Kenya)

Isn't interesting that HardLoper's list inexplicably left off the World Championship Winner Bernard Legat?!! Also conveniently omitted was '08 Champ (since disqualified) Rashid Ramzi and Asbel Kiprop, OG Gold Medalist & two time WC Gold Medalist & a major figure in running since then; he ran 3.27.72 in 2013.

So, when facts get in your way of making a point .... just ignore them and create your own list.

Message Board Police wrote:

He must have decided to create his own Top 10 1500 list

....

So, when facts get in your way of making a point .... just ignore them and create your own list.

HAHAHAHAHA. I used the top list of performers in the 1500, Einstein.

http://www.iaaf.org/records/toplists/middlelong/1500-metres/indoor/men/senior/2007

not even a question wrote:

Not sure why they said he was the best in the world in 2004. But he was clearly the best mid-D guy in the world all spring/summer (thru July) in 2007. You put July 2007 Webb in the world championships a month later and very good chance he wins gold. He was the strongest mid-D guy in the world with by far the best kick that year. He obviously just peaked a few weeks early that year. It was clear as soon as those WC 1500 rounds started that he was off, and he still was right there with 100m to go in the final, just had lost his peak and didn't have that insane finishing speed like he had all year.

Not sure I agree. There were some VERY good runners in the 2007 final, much better than recent years (especially 2012 where the Kenyans were ruined), and he didn't race any of them except Lagat. His win in Paris was great, but again, it was only over Baala (who didn't make the final), Willis (who finished behind him in the final), and Lagat who was way back. Perhaps he was better than #7 in July, but all that's really clear is that Lagat was not in good form in June or July.

One of the best in the world? Yeah right. Maybe fastest in the world, but his ability to race i.e. compete was effectively zero. He only won races when they were basically time trials. World champs? Drop a 12 second 100 at 800m, spend all all your energy, thats the way! WEBB, FLAME OUT! Frustrated the time trial didnt go as planned? Cross tne line and scream like a giant chicken!

Mickey on Rocky I: "Women weaken legs..."

HardLoper wrote:

Oh, and I wonder how many of the 10 I listed had the "racing skills" to make 2 global finals? I know Baala did, maybe Baba as well. So Webb is in the top 30% in that regard as well.

Clutching at straws

Compare him to someone like John Walker, when he was past his best he still ran like a pro and within range of his best times

He wasn't taking drugs.

If he did, maybe he could have been on par with Rupp and Lagat currently.

Runhere wrote:

Mickey on Rocky I: "Women weaken legs..."

Yet Daddy can still kick.

NYRR just uploaded slo-mo video of the Wannamaker mile and Allen doesn't look all that different from the other guys.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

HardLoper wrote:

Oh, and I wonder how many of the 10 I listed had the "racing skills" to make 2 global finals? I know Baala did, maybe Baba as well. So Webb is in the top 30% in that regard as well.

Clutching at straws

Compare him to someone like John Walker, when he was past his best he still ran like a pro and within range of his best times

Good for John Walker. Why would I cherry-pick ONE guy to compare it to, when I can compare it to a completely unbiased list of times? When you make a completely objective comparison, Webb's racing skills were right on par with his fitness, perhaps even slightly exceeded it.

Track and Field News rankings are a JOKE

In 1984, they ranked Seb Coe, the only man EVER to successfully defend his olympic 1500m title, the man who also went on to win again in Zurich after the games, as the SECOND best that year. Know who they ranked first? Aouita - a guy that did not even compete in the olympic 1500.

Their reasoning? He had the fastest time that year.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Know who had they fastest time in 2007?

ALAN MF WEBB

Yet they ranked him 6th. Unlike Aouita however, Webb RACED the top 1500m runners in 2007 and pretty much beat them all at one point or another.

T&FN ranks based on however they feel like ranking without any regard for consistency.

Webb was the best in 2007.

Ultimately I take Alan Webb for who he is and was: the American mile record holder and one of a select few high schoolers to break 4 in the mile. He was great for a time, now his time is up, and America will have a new miler that will rise up and take up the challenge. Not saying his record is gonna be broken anytime soon (3:53 is fast). But there is talent out there

coach d wrote:

Which happens to be the age that Michael Johnson retired at (31, not 41).

MJ was a month shy of 32 when he broke the 400m WR in 1999 and retired at 35 in 2002.

I'd like to see Webb's training logs to see just what kind of workouts he ran. The story was that he was always doing incredibly fast, hard workouts. All of us know that when you push it to the limit in workouts, you are often on the edge of injury. Clearly he pushed too hard and couldn't figure out the kinds of prevention exercises that allow you to avoid the many incipient injuries you get in training. He did have to take extensive time off due to injuries, and yet he did not follow that up with a healthy year. He had years where he was roughly on one year and off the next. Even before 2007, he was great in 2001 and then again several times, including the year he ran 3:49. There were numerous times where he won American trials, and at his best, races would be about him, following the pacers and nobody could keep up. In 2007, his kick in the last 50m was incredible and nobody in the world could have kept up with it. The fact is that he was in great shape in June and July (covering NYC and/or Pre, Paris, Belgium, the 800m), but it was not that he lost his peak in August, but that he got injured in that 1:43.8 800m race at the end. On top of that, he got sick in Japan before World's. So, he did poorly in the final because of those two things, as has been covered many times before. As Salazar said, he probably did too much of the strength work and was the kind to add too much muscle in lifting. With the many coaching changes, he was too impatient and had he chilled out in that indoor race where he failed to break 4 instead of having a fit (soon after he ran 3:37 in Australia after the break with Salazar but that was it for him), he would have soon seen how much he was gaining from that group. Remember that 2007 was fantastic because he was building on the tremendous aerobic gains of 2006, when he ran the early 10k in 27:34, beating Ritz, and then had a long summer break with injury. He should have tried to replicate that later.