• rojo
      co-founder
      • Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 12:43PM
      • rojo
        co-founder
      • LetsRun's friend David Epstein has a big article out today about Tyson Gay positive test this summer. It's published both in Sports Illustrated and on Pro Publica.

        Check out the homepage or this link:

        http://www.propublica.org/arti...n-gay-file

        The skinny is he tested positive after seeing a doctor that is very popular with a slew of NFL stars and may have very well tested positive for a drug that is legal in the NFL (and MLB) but not track.

        -Rojo

        PS. We're trying to think of a clever twitter hashtag for people to mock the NFL's drug testing.

        Any ideas?

        #NFLDoped
        #NFLDruggedup
        #NFLTestingisajoke
    • Mr. Obvious
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 12:49PM - in reply to rojo
      • Mr. Obvious
      • I guess it is true, it really is like failing an intelligence test:

        The label on the cream Gay is believed to have used starkly says “Testosterone/DHEA Crème,” and lists testosterone and DHEA among its ingredients. DHEA is a hormone converted in the body to testosterone, and both DHEA and testosterone are banned for Olympic athletes. Two other listed ingredients, IGF-1 and somatropin — another name for human growth hormone — are also forbidden.

        #nosympathy
    • rojo
      co-founder
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 1:33PM - in reply to Mr. Obvious
      • rojo
        co-founder
      • Mr. Obvious wrote:
        I guess it is true, it really is like failing an intelligence test:

        The label on the cream Gay is believed to have used starkly says “Testosterone/DHEA Crème,” and lists testosterone and DHEA among its ingredients.
        Yes but later in the article the manufacturer says testosterone isn't even in there. "When contacted, Breitenmoser said that the cream does contain DHEA, but does not actually include testosterone or somatropin, both of which are illegal without a prescription."

        I just got off the phone with David Epstein and he said they may pay to test the cream to see if testerone is or isn't in there. But does it really matter?

        Yes, Gay was an idiot as the label clearly said it had something he shouldn't be taken.

        But the bigger story is he very well could have been given a cream the doctor gives to all of his NFL stars with no problem whatsoever as DHEA isn't banned.

        The bigger story than Gay getting banned is the fact that the NFL players don't get banned.

        If the NFL is really worried about player safety, they'd start Olympic drug testing. Hell with their money, they could test 3 times a week.
        Consider these stats. # of NFL players over 300 pounds in the NFL

        1970s: 1
        1980-1994: 3
        2000: 301
        2010: 532

        And you think that's all natural?

        http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01...d=all&_r=0
    • Mr. Obvious
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 1:50PM - in reply to rojo
      • Mr. Obvious
      • rojo wrote:

        But the bigger story is he very well could have been given a cream the doctor gives to all of his NFL stars with no problem whatsoever as DHEA isn't banned.

        The bigger story than Gay getting banned is the fact that the NFL players don't get banned.

        If the NFL is really worried about player safety, they'd start Olympic drug testing. Hell with their money, they could test 3 times a week.
        I honestly disagree that is the larger part of the story. I don't accept the premise that different organizations have to have the exact same testing procedures and lists of banned substances. In fact, that isn't even true in Olympic sports as several (archery for one) have supplemental lists of banned substances.

        That isn't to say that NFL testing is airtight or anything. Just that it is up to the NFL and NFLPA to set their own testing standards and banned lists.


        I do wish all of them would take pot off the list of banned substances.
    • C/M Runner
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 1:53PM - in reply to rojo
      • C/M Runner
      • Glad there is finally some kind of an update on this.

        How about #NFLisajoke
    • krispy kremlin
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:08PM - in reply to rojo
      • krispy kremlin
      • I question whether the NFL is really worried about their players.

        Drugs/roids in the NFL make for a faster, harder-hitting, more-intense product that has staying power for 4 quarters/16 games+. If you take the PEDs out of the equations, it is my belief, that the game would slow-down/be less intense. It wouldn't be as dramatic as switching from NBA to WNBA but game-to-game, week-to-week, season-to-season the "product" wouldn't be as "good".

        Same goes for cycling, NBA, MLB. Doped cyclists make the Tour exciting by attacking the mountains; these are synthetic performances but they make for captivating television. Take out the PEDs and we're back to regular "human" performances. You or I might not mind that; and instead focus on the mano-a-mano competition with all its flaws and failures. For better or worse, we're living in a "doped society" (sports, study-aids, cosmetic surgery, etc) where anything less than super-human is inadequate - track/NFL are just closer to being honest about it.

        #dopedSociety
    • Not Hard to Stay Clean
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:09PM - in reply to C/M Runner
      • Not Hard to Stay Clean
      • I didn't even bother reading the article; the "skinny" was enough.

        First of all, what the NFL does has nothing to do with track. Track & Field has its own set of rules. All the the athletes have to do is follow them. Seems pretty easy in my book.

        Second, I am so sick of athlete's excuses. How about just following a balanced diet and working your butt off? Stop looking for magic creams, powders, pills and other supplements that will give you some false edge beyond what you were born with and developed through hard work. If you have to medicate for legitimate health reasons, then you'd better damn well get it cleared with the governing body first. No more of this "well...I didn't know" crap.
    • Josh Hamilton's Addiction
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:17PM - in reply to rojo
      • Josh Hamilton's Addiction
      • There is no double standard. Rojo, I don't understand why you continue to push this idea. They are completely different sports that deal with their testing in different ways. That doesn't mean there's a double standard.

        A double standard does exist in track and field, however. Bolt will never get caught doping, whereas the sport is willing to use Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell as sacrificial lambs. That's the true double standard.

        But congratulations, you have figured out that football, like every professional sport, is doped to the gills.
    • Nutella1
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:22PM - in reply to rojo
      • Nutella1
      • If you think Tyson Gay tested positive only for DHEA then I can't help you.

        The fact that you can dope whichever way you like in the NFL doesn't matter. The NFL is basically a "show" and not so much a sport while Track and Field is supervised by the IOC.

        And yes, Tyson guy is an idiot. And he is really sorry ... about being caught!
    • Gamera
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:24PM - in reply to Mr. Obvious
      • Gamera
      • I agree with Mr Obvious: while the fact that NFL'ers can get away with using this cream helps confirm what most people already know about the NFL (i.e. PED use is rampant), it should not obscure the fact that the main story is that Tyson Gay is guilty here.

        It seems like there is a lot of sympathy out there for him. He was "betrayed". Lauryn Williams tells the sad tale of how innocent Tyson was misled. I'm not buying it. What possible motivation could he have for taking a cream that clearly lists ingredients like DHEA and testosterone, other than to cheat? Think of it: are we really going to feel sorry for a guy who rubbed a cream clearly labelled as containing widely-known banned ingredients, because he didn't realize there was anything wrong with that? When he was told that NFL players were taking it and not testing positive, I interpret that to mean he thought he could take it and not test positive - not that he thought that meant it didn't contain anything illegal.

        As far as the argument that the cream doesn't really contain testosterone (but does really contain DHEA), I guess the facts will emerge eventually. But even if Gay thought at the time that it didn't really contain testosterone (and what did he think about the DHEA?), it stretches credulity to suggest that, knowing as he must the long history of athletes claiming that their positive tests were caused by ingredients found in supposedly legal supplements, he was rubbing himself with a cream with testosterone listed on the label, fully confident he was not violating any rules. Give me a break!

        Gay is getting sympathy due to his "nice guy" status. But the facts presented thus far only give the impression of cold-blooded cheating.
    • Hoser, eh
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:25PM - in reply to Josh Hamilton's Addiction
      • Hoser, eh
      • I don't understand why you use the term "double standard" to describe the situation. That suggests that two entities which should be treated equally or have the same standard applied to them, are not.

        Who, exactly, do you think considers that attitudes towards drug use in these two sports should be equal?

        Nobody cares what PEDs are used by NFL players. It has become implicitly accepted that linemen use steroids. It has been demonstrated repeatedly that even casual viewers of track and field expect those athletes to be penalized for PED use. But that doesn't mean it's a double standard.
    • TrackCoach
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:25PM - in reply to C/M Runner
      • TrackCoach
      • The basic parts of the story are somewhat similar to what I suspected, accept the part where the cream is labeled. In this day and age, taking anything related to DHEA or with a "T" listed somewhere is smoke, as in fire and don't touch. (Period) Also, a minimum amount of research will tell you that the anti-aging profession is all about boosting harmone levels and in the hypersensitive world of t&f these guys are a no-no. I have been somewhat on the fence about the Gay situation, but I am off the fence and say he's done. Ignorance gets you a little bit of sympathy, but not enough to escape punishment.
    • NTHXC
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:31PM - in reply to rojo
      • NTHXC
      • rojo wrote:

        The bigger story than Gay getting banned is the fact that the NFL players don't get banned.

        If the NFL is really worried about player safety, they'd start Olympic drug testing. Hell with their money, they could test 3 times a week.

        Well said. But do football watching Americans care? I think that's really where the problem lies.
    • Xfit_guy_the_real_1
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:31PM - in reply to rojo
      • Xfit_guy_the_real_1
      • rojo wrote:
        Consider these stats. # of NFL players over 300 pounds in the NFL

        1970s: 1
        1980-1994: 3
        2000: 301
        2010: 532
        this is actually pretty impressive. Obviously, these days we know more about nutrition (paleo etc) and strength workouts (Crossfit and so on) so we know how to bring the human body to its physiological limit.

        I applaud this.
    • coachkritter
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:49PM - in reply to Xfit_guy_the_real_1
      • coachkritter
      • [quote]rojo wrote:
        Consider these stats. # of NFL players over 300 pounds in the NFL

        1970s: 1
        1980-1994: 3
        2000: 301
        2010: 532
        quote]

        Have you noticed the general American public ? Plenty of 300 lb'ers.
    • Money for nothing
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:50PM - in reply to rojo
      • Money for nothing
      • No real reason to dialog the double standard , pro sports wether it be baseball , football , hockey , drugs and usage are a part of doing business , its a multi billion dollar proposition. The sports needs and demands big , fit fast athletes than can do battle week in and week out. The mock busts are just that. We should just make it legal.
        Track and field for the most part is still an amateur sport run by amateurs largely populated with volunteers and ex-athletes who have yet to leave the sport trying to figure out a way to still make a living from it. Guys like Drummond are the epitome of milking the system and figuring out how to beat the system for a few bucks.
    • My $.02 worth
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 2:52PM - in reply to rojo
      • My $.02 worth
      • If Gay really used a cream with that label, he is dumb, dumb, dumb. With the money he has made Gay should at least have someone around with enough sense to read supplement/drug labels and check them against the WADA list.

        Any involvement by Drummond in this would be very concerning given his role with USATF.

        As for double standards, I don't think it's really double standards so much as different sports having different standards.

        The players in the big sports all belong to unions that have "protected" their members by limiting drug testing. Each sport has ended up with their own banned lists and testing protocols as part of their labor agreement instead of following WADA/USADA.
    • Les
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 3:05PM - in reply to rojo
      • Les
      • Rojo, there's no double standard. That means two different individuals are treated differently under the same rules. For example if Tyson Gay were allowed to compete while a lesser-known athlete was suspended, both for testing positive.

        All the major professional sports have their own different drug testing protocols and punishments -- you can't compare them to track & field which is under the auspices of USADA.
    • just sayin
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 3:06PM - in reply to My $.02 worth
      • just sayin
      • hasn't he been doping for a long time anyhow!


        it's afantasy that any of these guys are clean somehow


        he didn't pluck that 9-69 out of thin air


        that takes serious juice to do that
    • Gamera
      • RE: Doping Double Standard Continues: D Epstein Reports Tyson Gay Tested Positive After Seeing Doctor Favorited By NFL Stars 2/10/2014 3:36PM - in reply to just sayin
      • Gamera
      • True. Part of the mainstream storyline seemed to be that Tyson Gay was having such a great season, and it's a shame it was ended by this positive test caused by a dodgy supplement.

        More likely, he was having a great season because he had so much extra testosterone in his system.