dreadmills

Run outside, pussy.

Once again the fake Hardloper proves much smarter than the real one.

I have done a LOT of treadmill running, honestly, I don't think they are easily comparable. However, running one mile fast outside goes by quicker than sitting there watching the time click by as you are trying to maintain 12 mph pace without bumping the console or edge of the belt.

croat24 wrote:

http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php

Again, that is the most idiotic piece of crap ever put on the internet.

Does anybody ever actually think about what that chart is saying?

Let's look at 8 mph or 7:30 pace.

1. There is absolutely no way an 8 mph wind will slow you down 19 seconds per mile. This article states it is only a few seconds.

2. If you look at the progression as the incline gets greater, the amount of time gets smaller. While you get 19 seconds between 0% and 1%, you only get 8 seconds between 9% and 10%. If you kept following the logic of that chart, by the time you got to 17%, the chart would tell you it will NEVER GET MORE DIFFICULT no matter how steep the incline gets.

3. Anybody that has EVER run on a treadmill knows that it gets MORE difficult as the incline % increases and eventually you get to a point you can't even run anymore. Theoretically when the incline hit 90%, you would just fall straight down.

4. The problem is that the effort to run these paces will be much greater and it can easily lead to overtraining if you don't understand how wrong they are.

How that IDIOTIC FLAWED MORONIC chart ever got popular is either one of the big mysteries of running or it shows how utterly stupid runners are when it comes to running uphill.

I CHALLENGE any of you that can roll through a 5 minute mile to jump on a treadmill and set it at 9.6 mph (6:15 pace) at 10% incline and tell me if that is comparable to running a 4:59 mile outside on a track.

At least they know what % grade means

It's a lot easier to run on the treadmill because you're basically just lifting your feet and bouncing up and down.

your reply seems pretty idiotic.

correlations have bounds that they are valid within - if you don't understand that you should probably not comment.

also from 0 to 1% incline is a larger percent increase than 9 to 10%.

I am not sure however of the validity of the chart over the ranges provided, but your counter arguments provide no insight as to why the information is flawed -

I would say 1 percent incline matches outdoor running from my experience

jerry wrote:

It's a lot easier to run on the treadmill because you're basically just lifting your feet and bouncing up and down.

Try this. You'll fall off the treadmill.

. . . wrote:

your reply seems pretty idiotic.

correlations have bounds that they are valid within - if you don't understand that you should probably not comment.

also from 0 to 1% incline is a larger percent increase than 9 to 10%.

I am not sure however of the validity of the chart over the ranges provided, but your counter arguments provide no insight as to why the information is flawed -

If you aren't sure of the validity, why don't you just find a treadmill and RUN THE PACES IT SAYS and see how difficult they are.

I can't even comprehend what you mean by a larger percent increase. 1% of a mile is 52.8 ft. Going from 0-1% you will go up 52.8 ft/mile. Going from 9%-10% you will go from 475.2 ft/mile to 528 ft/ mile OR 52.8 ft/mile extra which is THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF INCREASE.

The problem is you don't expend LESS energy for each incremental percentage of incline you run up but you expend MORE. The chart is EXACTLY BACKWARDS in that regards.

I just plugged in race results for Simon Gutierrez who ran Mt Washington in 2011. He averaged 8:30 pace per mile. Based on his 5k at Carlsbad, he should be able to run 5:22 pace for 7.6 miles. The hillrunner chart says 8:30 pace at 11.5% incline is only worth 6:03 pace. There is a HUGE difference between 6:03 and 5:22.

I did the same thing for Craig Fram. He ran 9:03 pace for Mt Washington. hillrunner chart says that is worth 6:23 pace. He ran an 8 mile race at 5:50 pace 4 weeks later. Again, the chart was off over 30 seconds.

Any runner trying to hit the paces the hillrunner chart says a run at incline is worth is going to be running WAY TOO FAST for his level of fitness.

The standard meaning of percent grade is "rise over run". And "run" does not actually represent the distance traveled, or hypotenuse, rather it is the horizontal projection. For example, a 45 degree angle is equivalent to a 100% grade since the rise and run are equal to each other.

So to be exact. . . going from 0-1% grade, one gains 52.8 feet but only 52.1 feet greater gain doing 10% than at 9%.

. . . for each mile traveled

turkey leg wrote:

The standard meaning of percent grade is "rise over run". And "run" does not actually represent the distance traveled, or hypotenuse, rather it is the horizontal projection. For example, a 45 degree angle is equivalent to a 100% grade since the rise and run are equal to each other.

So to be exact. . . going from 0-1% grade, one gains 52.8 feet but only 52.1 feet greater gain doing 10% than at 9%.

OMG, That 8" will make a HUGE difference in the calculations. I can now see how that could be worth 10 seconds!!

Just accept the fact that hillrunner chart is wildly wrong and if any of you numbnutz actually got on a treadmill and did a few runs at inclines from 5% to 10%, You would quickly realize what I am telling you is true.

Having just come from a tempo workout on a treadmill, I can say that, although I am not at where I should be fitness wise, it is of similar difficulty

My workout was 4x5min. at 6:00 pace with 1:00 rest inbetween each. It was killer.

I really think that the only thing that really makes the treadmill different (which is still the case at 1% incline) is that you're not maintaining your momentum. There's probably some physics equation to quantify this, but really, after the initial acceleration you're just moving your legs to maintain that forward momentum. Depending on pace, there's not much energy involved in mainting pace - just flinging your legs about.

So I guess the treadmill workout isn't really that much easier, especially at an incline...don't feel bad for going on the treadmill for that workout, just don't do it all the time.

Also, the Polar Vortex isn't really that bad if you have the clothes. I live an hour north of NYC and it's only getting to about 10 at the lowest, which is manageable with the a couple layers....god help you if you live upstate though.

hey wrote:

Also, the Polar Vortex isn't really that bad

It was widely reported that contrary to an overexuberant media, we are not experiencing another Polar vortex but merely just cold winter weather. The winds have been coming out of the south and west the last few days compared to straight out of the north during the first polar vortex. I will admit to never hearing that term before a couple weeks ago.

Even though I have posted exhaustive proof about how wrong that hillrunner chart is, my opininon about running on the treadmill is that it's kind of pointless trying to compare to outside running because you can do all sorts of outside runs without ANY of them being similar. I run single track in the state park, flat roads, hilly roads, etc. Every run outside can be different just like the run on the treadmill is different.

Trying to hit a pace on the treadmill can be just as dangerous as trying to hit a pace on your gps. If that pace is too fast, it will lead to overtraining and injuries.

Am I the only person in the world who finds it more difficult to run on a treadmill than outside? I'll put a 1 or 1.5% incline on the stupid thing, and it takes a heck of a of effort to run anything faster than 7:30 pace. And once I'm off, my hamstrings feel like they've been ripped apart. Did some half mile repeats yesterday at 9.0 and 9.5mph and had a hard time walking today. I'm definitely a hobby jogger, but on a track, I could have done the same workout at 6:00 without breaking a sweat. What's up with that?

Nope not the only one. Running 730 pace outside feels like a jog but on the treadmill it's much more difficult. Not by much but still. Plus take into account the mental aspect of running on a treadmill....the boredom.

Is 1% incline equal to an incline of 1.0? Or is it different when people say you should raise the incline to a certain %? I've always ran with the treadmill on a 0.5 incline because I have heard that you should raise it. But if I do 1.0 I actually start to feel it after a few miles and it makes my legs a bit tired. I don't really feel the 0.5 but I am wondering if I should be at 1.0 always on a treadmill or is 0.5 fine?