12X 400 in 55 with 40 second jog

How about that bs Once a Runner workout? 3x20x400 in 60s with 100m jog recovery by a guy trying to go sub-4? Yeah sure, buddy. People lie about workouts all the time. Elites do it to gain a mental advantage over their competition. I remember some whopper by Jos Hermens and K. Bekele going something like 16x (400 in 52-54, 200 in 24-25). That's a joke.

Both Steve Scott and El Guerrouj did theirs with 30 second rest. 10X400 in 53-54 for Hicham.

letsrunrunnerrunner wrote:

this was apparently a workout Morceli did, is it normal to be able to handle roughly your mile pace like this? can most people do 12X400 around mile pace let alone with a 40 second jog? it doesnt sound right to me

Repeat 400s at or slightly faster than 1500-mile race pace is a very common workout for milers, but 40 seconds is a far shorter interval than is typically the case...

[quote]Idontevenknow wrote:

How about that bs Once a Runner workout? 3x20x400 in 60s with 100m jog recovery by a guy trying to go sub-4? Yeah sure, buddy. [quote]

You may want to read the book again. That wasn't the workout and any semblance of hitting 60 seconds was long gone before the workout was half over.

SMJO wrote:

Idontevenknow wrote:

How about that bs Once a Runner workout? 3x20x400 in 60s with 100m jog recovery by a guy trying to go sub-4? Yeah sure, buddy.

You may want to read the book again. That wasn't the workout and any semblance of hitting 60 seconds was long gone before the workout was half over.

Looking at Steve Scott's diary from 1981 (his best year), I can't see 12x400 anywhere in it and most of the time, he had jog recoveries during his work outs, not timed recoveries.

Using one of his workouts below - I find it hard to believe that someone was running them in 53sec with 30sec rec when Scott was doing 2x5x400 with a full 400j at a slower pace (55.8 ave)

8/3: AM 5mi jog PM@ SLO 2x(5x400) 400j, 400w between sets. Very good. 55.4, 56.8, 57.1, 56.4, 55.8, 55.1, 56.8, 56.2, 55.8, 52.8. (10mi)

Idontevenknow wrote:

How about that bs Once a Runner workout? 3x20x400 in 60s with 100m jog recovery by a guy trying to go sub-4? Yeah sure, buddy. People lie about workouts all the time. Elites do it to gain a mental advantage over their competition. I remember some whopper by Jos Hermens and K. Bekele going something like 16x (400 in 52-54, 200 in 24-25). That's a joke.

Well, 54s per 400 is quick, but only about 2 seconds per mile faster than mile pace. Bekele took 2:00 recovery and ran a sprinty 200. Then he recovered again for 2:00

The "classic" miler workout is 400 @ mile pace then 60 second jog. It's perfectly plausible to run a couple seconds per 400 faster than mile pace with double the recovery, and having the 200s in their only makes it easier.

Is it really that difficult to imagine a 5:00 guy doing 400 in 73, 2:00 min jog, 200 in 34, 2:00 jog, rinse and repeat till done?

for what it's worth, 12x400 was a staple workout for me, with the following format; i once did 3x (4x400), 200m jog between 400s, 1 lap between each of the three sets. my 200m jog was likely closer to 50-60 seconds, with the one lap rest close to 1:45, though i'm just guessing. i did all 12 400s in 56, and i was only a 355 guy, so morceli's workout does not seem impossible, even with the short rest, and especially with frequent visits to italian pharmacies...

Don't believe the stuff you read about pro workouts. In Paul Tergat's book it says he did something like 20x400m in 53 seconds each with 1 minute jog rest between at 8000ft elevation. I have read equally ridiculous claims about other pros. Don't believe it.

I believe that several of the guys from the EPO era were capable of this type of workout. When you're operating with superhuman, dangerously high hematocrit, you certainly should be able to recover quicker than an ordinary man.

Guppy wrote:

Don't believe the stuff you read about pro workouts. In Paul Tergat's book it says he did something like 20x400m in 53 seconds each with 1 minute jog rest between at 8000ft elevation. I have read equally ridiculous claims about other pros. Don't believe it.

This.

A 55 at the end of the workout becomes 53 for all of them.

Tergat could barely run 53 all out I'd wager, he was probably a 51 guy maybe 50high at fastest.

That being said,

12x400m at mile pace with 40s jog seems doable for a 3:27/3:44 guy. If dudes like Bannister could do 10x400m at mile pace with 2min rest off of like 30-40 miles a week, is it really surprising that other guys can recover faster?

When you are 120-130lb like morceli/El G were, have been running high mileage and high intensity (huge amounts of 4:30-5:10 pace stuff often at altitude), 30s recovery is a LOT LONGER than it seems for big boned white dudes that do intervals and easy jogging only.

Hell, El G was doing his 1000m reps in 2:30, 10 of em with short recovery. THAT'S insane.

One week before I PR'd in the mile I ran 12 x 400m at mile pace - 2 seconds with 200 meter jogs in between sets.

As a coach, I would often tell my athlete they ran a 59.5 for a 400m rep when it was actually 61, so that he would feel good and confident about himself.

Also, with 400m, the running start makes it a little easier than it sounds.

Guppy wrote:

Don't believe the stuff you read about pro workouts. In Paul Tergat's book it says he did something like 20x400m in 53 seconds each with 1 minute jog rest between at 8000ft elevation. I have read equally ridiculous claims about other pros. Don't believe it.

Trust you to get it wrong as usual Guppy. The Tergat workout was 56 seconds at 6000ft

Hell, El G was doing his 1000m reps in 2:30, 10 of em with short recovery. THAT'S insane.

Not really. You have to look at all of this related to actual race pace. In peak shape I could do 6-7 1000s with fairly short recoveries in 2:31-32. With his combo of 1500 stamina and 5k endurance, that sounds about right.

Also keep in mind :

When world class runners are in peak shape they also have incredibly fast recovery abilities in between intervals in workouts. It is part of the whole system being so well-tuned.

all the best,

Marius Bakken

I've done something similar, i don't think it is so hard to believe that Morceli did this. Most people can't fathom running the mile in the times that he and EL G did, its understandable that they would post some incredible workouts.

Also, like Marius said, these guys have an incredible recovery rate. And we've all had workouts that seemed to indicate that we could run faster than we actually raced. For guys like Morceli with amazing recovery capabilities, 40 sec. isn't really that short.

wouldn't surprise me either

55 second is only a second faster than his world record mile pace after all

anyone got an idea what farah was doing similar?

Marius;

Nice to see a post from you. Can you add some comments about what you've observed over the last couple of years? i.e. Farrah's rise, Rupp.

the London 1500 winner's credibility.

farah ran 6x 400m in sub-55 (off of 90sec - so 38 sec recovery). He did 4 x 300m (100m float in 20sec) at 40sec, so a 3.40 1500m, so at about 95% for the total time relatively to his goal pace (sub 3.30).