Lydiard's 28 week training

michaelchamp2112 wrote:

I read an article online that said that Lydiard suggested the ideal training program is at least 28 weeks. I am wanting to do the Lydiard training program for cross country. The thing is, that 28 weeks from cross country would be like late February or early March. That is during my track season when I am doing anaerobic work which is the opposite of his aerobic phase 1 work. Do I wait until after track ends to start his program? Does it really need 28 weeks or is that stretch? Do I start his program during track season. Tell me what you think about this 28 weeks is ideal to run your best.

Lydiard also said something to the effect of not racing a runner at all for 4-5 years because it would "spoil" him.

28+ (up to 40+) weeks sounds about right for the professional athletes starting base training right now (think Brenda Martinez recent post or Nick Symmonds training) looking for mid-August peaks.

Why not try it and train all the way through track season?

bro, look at like every good runner today. They do 2 peaks a year. how many weeks are in a year? 52, after each peak race they take 2 weeks off. 2x2=4, 52-4=48, 48 divided by 2 = 24. A full training cycle with taper and peak should be about 24 weeks. a couple weeks longer or shorter depending on when your peak race is. Basically how Lydiard trained his guys, they had their speed phase and taper mapped out as a certain number of weeks, then everything before that was base.

So say you do 6 weeks of speed work and a 2 week taper and peak. You subtract 8 weeks from your peak race, which lets say is in late October. So basically start speed at beginning of September. After track take 2 weeks off, then take 2 weeks to ease back into things as the body allows, then build base until September.

If my biggest race is late October to early November. Should I be at the end of his 28 week program around late October? Thanks man.

Also to the other poster, even though my district track race is mid March. Do you think I should start Lydiard's program somewhere right when track season ends? If I start in late March then I will finish the 28 weeks program in mid October. Does this sound about right?

what's your coach say?

michaelchamp2112 wrote:

I read an article online that said that Lydiard suggested the ideal training program is at least 28 weeks. I am wanting to do the Lydiard training program for cross country. The thing is, that 28 weeks from cross country would be like late February or early March. That is during my track season when I am doing anaerobic work which is the opposite of his aerobic phase 1 work. Do I wait until after track ends to start his program? Does it really need 28 weeks or is that stretch? Do I start his program during track season. Tell me what you think about this 28 weeks is ideal to run your best.

NotAustin18 wrote:

bro, look at like every good runner today. They do 2 peaks a year. how many weeks are in a year? 52, after each peak race they take 2 weeks off. 2x2=4, 52-4=48, 48 divided by 2 = 24. A full training cycle with taper and peak should be about 24 weeks. a couple weeks longer or shorter depending on when your peak race is. Basically how Lydiard trained his guys, they had their speed phase and taper mapped out as a certain number of weeks, then everything before that was base.

So say you do 6 weeks of speed work and a 2 week taper and peak. You subtract 8 weeks from your peak race, which lets say is in late October. So basically start speed at beginning of September. After track take 2 weeks off, then take 2 weeks to ease back into things as the body allows, then build base until September.

You are confused with marathon runners. The top track runners are aiming at just one peak a year.

CycloneAlum, track runners do indoors to practice peaking for outdoor. Then outdoor they peak for the championship races in August, then take a week of just jogging and back to full force with workouts to hit a couple fast meets for time to get an extra pay check.

My coach says just to run with the track team until June. Then from June to August, run with my team on M,W,F hill workouts. These hill workouts fall perfectly into lydiards program. I think I will benefit greatly by doing this program but I need some help breaking it down. As far as I know about this plan. April until June is aerobic running. All of June is hills and some of July. End of July to October is sharpening. And rest is easy workouts to taper for districts and so on

simply compress the time frame. run your tnf season. take you 2 weeks, and then gear up for xc. i mean, my guess is you arent gunna run 100mile weeks so, you can cut some time in the aerobic base phase, and only peak at 80 miles.

simply compress the time frame. run your tnf season. take you 2 weeks, and then gear up for xc. i mean, my guess is you arent gunna run 100mile weeks so, you can cut some time in the aerobic base phase, and only peak at 80 miles.

I have one more questions. The schedule and guide says to finish the program for the first important race. Does this mean I should end the program before my first race of the season or does it mean my district and regional and state ?

NotAustin18 wrote:

CycloneAlum, track runners do indoors to practice peaking for outdoor. Then outdoor they peak for the championship races in August, then take a week of just jogging and back to full force with workouts to hit a couple fast meets for time to get an extra pay check.

Where do you get this nonsense?

Well for instance, Galen Rupp ran 3:50.92 mile and 7:30.18 3k indoors. Took a little break after indoors. Trained up for outdoors. After 2011 world champs, Galen ran a 26:48 10k american record. After 2012 olympics, he did 5 days of just easy running to recover then did some workouts and did a couple extra meets into September to get an extra pay check. Bernard Lagat doesn't take his summer break until after the 5th Avenue Mile in New York in late September.

This still didn't answer my question. When am I supposed to peak? The day of my biggest meet or middle of season or right before district meet? Should I just count 28 weeks back to the day from my biggest race as the program will finish so I will peak on my biggest race

You peak for the most important race. (district)

To peak you cut back volume (Both in speed work and easy mileage), to around 75% volume the first week and be at 50% the 2nd week, the 2nd week of tapering(cutting back volume) is when you have your peak race.

You do the speed work and races before the taper though to get sharp. The taper is just done to absorb the training and rest up to be fresh enough to run to your potential. Peaking is an art, the specifics you have to learn for yourself individually. Some guys need to do things slightly differently than others.

Frank Shorter learned how to peak perfectly for any one day and it lead to an olympic gold and an olympic silver (which should have also been gold cuz Cierpinski was doped up). Then someone like Bill Rodgers, his taper was usually just 5 mile and 3 mile singles the last 2 days before a marathon.

Practice the tapering, learn what works for you. Try the 2 week 75% and 50% rule though. That's the general rule of thumb. If it doesn't work well, in future seasons you adjust things until you find out what does work for you.

Elite track athletes do no have 2 peaks a year. They train through indoor season. Salazar's guys do short speed work year round which enables them to race fast indoors, but other than that they are still mainly building a base. Outdoors is the big time

Michael, Merry Christmas. We use Lydiard with our kids in the spring, so maybe this may help you.

The simple answer is to aim for your biggest meet, although that can be stretched.

Don't get tied up with 28 weeks. While we get in 28 weeks for track, we have to do with fewer weeks in XC. It's the reality of how our seasons are set up. Really, 10 or so weeks for the base works well for us. We follow it with 4 wks hills, 4 wks intervals, 4 wks Sharpening, 2 weeks to peak, and then - for us - 2 more weeks in track.

We see jumps in performance with each phase change, but the last 2 week cycle - particularly the last week - typically gives us the biggest improvement (5-15 seconds in the mile). Controlling the length of the long run is huge.

My last track meet is April 7th. If I take 2 weeks off then start the 28 week program. I will peak on my regional meet, the biggest meet. It is one week after the district. Do you have any tips on the program. Will I be ok at the beginning on the season if I'm still not done with the program? Any suggestions or tips you have for me?

Jack Daniels says the ideal training cycle is something similar, like 24-28 weeks. He also has a chart that shows the best way to compress it.

For example say it's a 24 week program and you have 22 weeks to prepare. The chart will show you which 2 weeks you should take out of the training cycle.

If you email him I bet he will send it to you. He's been responsive to my emails in the past.

Notso... wrote:

Elite track athletes do no have 2 peaks a year. They train through indoor season. Salazar's guys do short speed work year round which enables them to race fast indoors, but other than that they are still mainly building a base. Outdoors is the big time

watch the nxn 2012 coaches clinic with Salazar. Straight from his mouth he says 2 peaks a year.

From this rationale, it can be figured that yes elites train through indoor, but they still peak for the top indoor races or sometimes a fall half marathon(like Lagat did). Usually in indoors, they experiment with something they think might be good that outdoor season. For example, Salazar says indoors 2012 instead of the usual 6 miles of intervals on Fridays, they wanted to do 3 during the taper, so he gave them 2 sets 1200-800-400. Mo and Galen ran 259-152-53 for both sets, as a result they were flat and raced like crap. This taught Salazar how to better monitor workouts in the taper so they peak better and we all know how that worked out in the Olympics.

Also, most coaches have their athletes race at their weaker event. Galen is a 10k runner, but he does a lot of 1500/mile focus indoors. He can't use his aerobic strength to overpower, so it teaches him tactics and is a good mental boost if he runs a good time in his weaker events.