Top Ten Greatest High School Runners (Boys)

Marty Liquori ranks up there just below Ryun. IMO, he had a better emotional balance than Ryun, more suited for competitive racing.

ummm ever heard of Marty Liquori?

Yes, I've heard of Marty Liquori. He had an excellent mile PR, but it wasn't a record. It was the third fastest HS mile at the time and puts him number five today, about half a second ahead of #6, Don Sage.

Perhaps you could familiarize me with some of his other accomplishments? Why, for instance, he should be placed ahead of Tim Danielson, who was faster and broke four before he did, or Don Sage, who he is not notably faster than and who also had outstanding achievements in XC? He certainly doesn't go ahead of Webb, Granville, or Verzbikas, all of whom set records at standard HS distances, and two of whom were faster than Liquori.

Craig virign should be up there somewhere. Still holds IL state xc record which niether chris derrick or LV could take down. And ran 8:40.9 in the 2 mile which was a record at the time, i believe. Also had the best or atleast top 3 in post highschool career. Dont remember his other PRs but i will look em up later.

Ryun & Lindgren are easily #1 & 2, and not necessarily in that order.

I'd say Pre, Virgin, and Webb are in next tier, with Webb only there because he broke Ryun's record that I honestly doubted anyone could (he was not on Ryun's level, though -- Ryun was close to the WR and national class).

It gets fuzzier after those 5, but if one looks at the HS records Chapa is the only one with a still standing -- and still remarkable - record, so that has to count for something.

Rupp?

mile - #7 at the time

2k - High School Record (HSR)

3k - HSR

5k - HSR

10k - #4 at the time (I think)

I very much agree that it there is no argument that Ryun and Lindgren are 1 and 2. I also agree that Pre and Webb are in the next tier. I think the others that have to be included are Michael Granville, Lukas Verzbikas, Eric Hulst. After that it gets fuzzier.

The problem with Virgin, is there are several other guys who were faster over the deuce (Lukas V, Fernandez, Jeff Nelson, Cheserek), so why not include them?

Sartor Resartus wrote:

Yes, I've heard of Marty Liquori. He had an excellent mile PR, but it wasn't a record. It was the third fastest HS mile at the time and puts him number five today, about half a second ahead of #6, Don Sage.

Perhaps you could familiarize me with some of his other accomplishments? Why, for instance, he should be placed ahead of Tim Danielson, who was faster and broke four before he did, or Don Sage, who he is not notably faster than and who also had outstanding achievements in XC? He certainly doesn't go ahead of Webb, Granville, or Verzbikas, all of whom set records at standard HS distances, and two of whom were faster than Liquori.

WOW you're ignorant.

Liquori ran sub 4 in high school. Held the Van Cortlandt Park HS XC record (12:23) when it was on sand and rocks. Olympian as a college freshman, made the Olympic final in 1968, youngest ever at the time. Multiple NCAA and AAU champion at 1500/mile and 5000m. Won the epic Dream Mile against Ryun. Held the AR at 2 miles and 5000m. Was ranked #1 in the world in the 1500m twice. Was ranked #1 in the world in the 5000 in 1977, 2nd in 1978, 3rd in 1975. He even finished 5th in the 1978 AAU 10k the night before his 3rd consecutive 5000 win.

Take out Ryun, the combined credentials of your #2-10 don't match up with Liquori's.

Virgin broke Prefontaine's HS two mile record (8:41.6 on a synthetic track in perfect conditions) with his 8:40.9 in the middle of the afternoon on a hot day, so hot that the rubberized asphalt track surface was melting. His HS cross country record at the state championship course still stands today.

Sartor Resartus wrote:

The problem with Virgin, is there are several other guys who were faster over the deuce (Lukas V, Fernandez, Jeff Nelson, Cheserek), so why not include them?

Imagine what Virgin would have run on a modern synthetic track in perfect conditions in the shade of the evening?

Virgin's 1973 HS record is the stuff of legends.

Rich Kimball

get real wrote:

WOW you're ignorant.

Liquori ran sub 4 in high school. Held the Van Cortlandt Park HS XC record (12:23) when it was on sand and rocks.

Take out Ryun, the combined credentials of your #2-10 don't match up with Liquori's.

You listed a lot of credentials for Liquori but most of them were not in any way relevant to the discussion of ranking him as a high school runner. I have edited so that the relevant credentials you put are preserved.

Samuel Wanjiru was the greatest high school runner of all time.

and Virgin was only 17 when he ran that 8:40.9

1973--40 Years Ago--

When fans talk about the greatest prep runners in history, the names Jim Ryun and Gerry Lindgren immediatley come to mind. Fair enough, but maybe Craig Virgin’s name should be added to the mix. Virgin put together a series of marks during his senior year at Lebanon(IL) H.S. that was nothing short of amazing, topped by the 8:40.9 two-mile that he ran on this date in 1973 to break Steve Prefontaine’s National H.S. Record(8:41.5)..

That was his 9th(!) sub-9 minute race(and 4th under 8:50) within the span of 2 months. In addition, he also recorded all-time top-3 marks in the 3000(8:10.2), 3-miles(13:36.8) and 5000-meters(13:58.2).

Oh, and he also ran a 4:05.5 mile(See season recap below). Finishing a distamt 2nd in his record race at the International Prep Invitation(IPI), with a creditable time of 8:56.8, was Matt Centrowitz (Power Memorial,NY).

Virgin’s record-setting race received some attention in the Chicago papers the next day, but he probably would have received more extensive coverage if Secretariat hadn’t won the Belmont Stakes by 31 lengths in NY on the same day to complete horse racing’s Triple Crown!

Virgin took time out on Sunday to reminisce about his record-setting performance.

“I was running out of time... I had run 8:45.6/4:08 indoors at Champaign in early March... and then 8:46.6 outdoors at an Invite at Centralia H.S. in early May... then just missed the record by one second (8:42.6) at our state meet... in hot/humid conditions at 1 PM!!! I did run a 4:05.5 fresh (not coming back off a 2-mile) the next weekend... so I knew that I was ready.. and hoped to break 8:40.... but knew that I had to be under 4:20 for the mile mark to have a chance.... or to build a little buffer in there... in case I could not rally for a fast last 440 (yes, Martha, we did run yards back then).

“I knew that the chase for the record could come down to a second or two... and that's why I had my coach Hank Feldt over near the 220 mark... giving me splits.... so I could hold goal pace... which was 64-66 per lap... and I (can) remember his splits and comments to me even today. He just retired from coaching this spring after 54 years! We are close friends still.” …

“I agree with Centrowitz... that had we been under the lights and later at night... cooler and drier.... w/ no wind.... and on a urethane track.... that I could probably have run 2 seconds a mile faster....and certainly not suffered the physical damage to my feet that I did on the black asphalt track... that was so hot... that you could have literally fried eggs on it!

I did miss Golden West the next weekend... because my feet were hamburger still....and tried to recover for the 2nd AAU Jr. Nationals... to be held down at Gainesville, FL later that month.... to make the US Jr. team again... that was slated to go overseas. (Virgin won the Junior 3-mile in 13:36.8)

Here’s an excerpt from Virgin’s forthcoming biography, written by Randy Sharer:

"Craig was involved in the opening ceremonies at which he was invited to read the “International Prep Oath.” As Centrowitz remembers it, “The rest of us were laughing or couldn't believe how much Craig was doing to promote the meet and his race at the same time.” (Meet Director Joe) Newton wanted Craig in front of the crowd as much as possible.

“When Joe says to do something, do you turn him down?” asked Craig, whose predicament caught the attention of Ted Hayden, the famed coach of the University of Chicago Track Club. Hayden suggested Craig warm-up inside Prospect High School to stay out of the sun.

After jogging through the hallways and locker room, Craig returned to the track 10 minutes before the gun to spend the last few moments in the shade of a Coca-Cola truck.

The race quickly turned into one of Craig's many solo time trials. “Craig took off and, after two laps, there was no more race,” Centrowitz said. But Craig wasn't exactly alone as the estimated crowd of 8,000 chanted “go, Craig, go” through all eight laps. “They kept my morale up,” he told a reporter later. “A crowd gives you tempo and I kept listening to the announcer calling off the times.”

The crowd included University of Illinois coach Gary Wieneke, who couldn't believe what he was seeing. “People literally dropped out of the competition,” he said. After the race, Craig told Wieneke, “Yes, it was hot, but it's been a lot hotter on the tractor down at home.”

Absent from the audience were Craig's parents, who had to tend to their farm. Craig blitzed the first lap in 62.5 and the second in 64.9. His feet began blistering inside his red-white-and-blue Nike spikes during a 65.6 third lap.

A fourth circuit of 66.5 put him at 4:19.5, a time that would have placed him seventh against a national-caliber field in the mile contested earlier. After a 65.8 and a 66.1, Craig's stomach began to hurt. A seventh lap of 65.9 left him needing a 64.2 to break Pre's record of 8:41.6.

“Going into the final 100 yards, all I could think about was that I had just missed the record at the state meet and I just wanted to be sure that I didn't miss it again,” Craig told the Chicago Tribune. With the help of a standing ovation, Craig ground out a 63.5 last lap to complete an 8:40.9 masterpiece.

“It's over! It's over! It's over!” he said as his spikes were removed by Feldt. It would be 35 years before anyone in a race limited to high school runners would go faster.

Centrowitz, a straightaway behind, placed second in a personal best of 8:56.8 while Perkins was third in 9:01.1. “A good track on a cool night, he had another five or six seconds in him,” said Perkins 36 years later. “These guys running fast today would have had a hard time beating Craig Virgin that day.”

As Craig signed autographs afterward, his immediate reaction to the record was not joy. “Relief,” he said, “relief that it was over now. I had that monkey off my back.” It was a good thing he got the record when he did because his feet were so blistered he had to pull out of the Golden West Invitational scheduled the following week. (END)

***

There was never any danger that Virgin, still only 17 at the time, would ever get a big head, despite all of his accomplishments.

“The next day after I broke Pre's record... Coach Feldt and I drove back home in his fancy Thunderbird midday... and I got home to discover that my dad was baling hay out in the field. Instead of celebrating... I promptly changed into work jeans and boots... and headed out to the hay wagon to stack heavy hay bales in the heat/humidity of southern Illinois for the rest of the day... and then put them up in the barn.

I think my mom gave me a hug....and fixed something special for me at dinner that night....but that was the extent of my celebration of the accomplishment that I had been chasing all year. That happened a lot to me during my career.... the farm always brought me down to earth.... after some of my biggest victories/accomplishments.... as well as some of my worst disappointments/losses.

The cows or hogs or crops....didn't care one bit about where I had been... or what I had done.... good or bad.... they all just wanted to be fed and watered on time! In many respects... I maintain that I was like a "white Kenyan" with their tough and physical agrarian background. I just didn't have to run to school barefoot on dirt roads!”.

Virgin went on to have a great collegiate career at Illinois, was a 3-time Olympian at 10,000-meters, a 2-time World Cross Country Champion, and was inducted into the U.S. Hall of Fame in 2011.

Hall of Fame Bio:http://www.usatf.org/HallOfFame/TF/showBio.asp?HOFIDs=247

His website:

http://www.craigvirgin.com/

A great look at his career

http://runningentertainment.com/runningshots17.html

1973 Season (Outdoor marks from Jack Shepard’s High School Track 1974)

2-mile/mile, unless otherwise noted

Date Time All-Time Meet

Indoors

February 11 8:51.0, 4:12.5(oversized)

February 23 13:50.0(3-miles,10th) #3 U.S. Indoor Nationals

March 3 8:45.6, 4:08.?(oversized) #2 Champaign

Outdoors

April 7 8:50.4 #10 performance Alton Relays

April ? 4:15.8

April ? 4:14.5, 1:56.8(880y) Triangular

April 24 8:55.6, 4:16.6 St.Olaf County

April 28 8:59.0 Granite City Inv.

May 2 9:24.2 O’Fallon Relays

May 3 4:27.9, 2:02.1(880y) Cahokis Conference

May 5 8:46.6, 4:11.8r #4 performance Orphan Relays

May 15 8:54.0 Cahokis Inv.

May 18 8:53.6 District

May 21 8:48.6, 4:08.5 #6 performance Meet of Champions

May 25 4:10.0(heat) State Meet

May 26 8:42.6, 4:12.2(2nd) #3 performance State Meet

June 1 4:05.5 =#14 Top-10 Inv.

June 9 8:40.9 #1 IPI

June 23 13:36.8(3-mile) #3 U.S. Juniors

July 4 4:06.1(5th) Freedom Mile

July 14 8:10.2(3k) #2 U.S. vs West Germany Juniors

July 20 8:16.0 #3 performance U.S. vs Poland Juniors

July 28 13:58.2(5k) #3 U.S. vs USSR Juniors

Ryun

Lindgren

Virgin

Pre

Chapa

Ritz

Hunt

Verzbickus

Hulst

Nelson

Sage

Liquori

Danielson

MChesney

Salazar

Virgin was the second fastest HS two miler after Lindgren, same with Prefontaine. Rupp should be on the list.

Are you talking about combined cross country and track? Mile/2 mile in track? or 800/mile? or top 10 range from 800-cross country? or top 10 across distances?

Yes, Virgin was only 17 yo, as was Lindgren when he ran 8:40.0 in high school. Virgin should have been disappointed that he was only the SECOND fastest high school 2 miler.

Fernandez was also 17 when he set the 2 mile record.

I was thinking top ten from 800 up, that's why I included both Michael Granville and Rudy Chapa.

Okay, fair enough about Craig Virgin, I suppose we can take off German Fernandez and add Craig Virgin, though I'm reluctant to do so.

And to the person who said Samuel Wanjiru was the best high schooler of all time, I would make two observations. 1) Perhaps I should have specified, but I would have thought from my list it would be obvious I was referring to American high schoolers, and 2) no, he is not the best high schooler of all time. That honor would go to Eliud Kipchoge.

I take back the second bit about Kipchoge, as I am pretty sure he was not in high school when he won the world championships 5000 in 2003 at age 18.