Wang Junxia 1993 records

I really wish we could have a definitive answer to whether or not she was doping. Sadly, all we can do at this point is start threads and speculate. This is either one of the greatest athletic feats of all time or one of the greatest athletic hoaxes of all time.

With that said, I have nothing to contribute to this thread besides that until I hear more evidence, I cannot say with authority that I think she was a cheater.

Bearing in mind that Chinese do have the video, here's another thing I wouldn't mind knowing...

The likes of Radcliffe and Szabo have surely inquired directly to IAAF about the availability of the footage. I wonder what response they are met with? Does the IAAF have footage? Does it need footage?

I don't know how anyone can trust Ma Junren. The dude is nuts. Pretty sure he was doping her up. Not sure if she knew. Maybe it'd be easy to disguise the dope as "traditional Chinese medicine."

Source for Foreigners being present in the stadium:

These are 2 photos taken for TIME by 2 clearly non-Chinese individuals. At the very least, this means that there were at least 2 foreign individuals in the Stadium at the time.

Moreover, the rights to the photos are restricted to ONLY Western Countries, meaning that they are completely unaffiliated with Chinese Media Outlets.

This is an article written by a New York Times-affiliated individual, and also states that there were press conferences involving western reporters at the National Games.

Seyta wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/12/sports/track-field-chinese-runners-excel-on-work-and-worms.html

This is an article written by a New York Times-affiliated individual, and also states that there were press conferences involving western reporters at the National Games.

Seems that this link doesn't work so well.

Search:

"Chinese Runners Excel on Work and Worms"

That should take you to the correct article.

Thanks for that response. Good work.

Would still like to know if it was ever televised?

The Track & Field website doesn't even recognise the records. Paula Radcliffe made her mouth go about Wang last year. Put the doubts to rest... release the video

you may be right about wang junxia, but EVERYONE knows who liu xiang is.

bumfeeler wrote:

Thanks for that response. Good work.

Would still like to know if it was ever televised?

The Track & Field website doesn't even recognise the records. Paula Radcliffe made her mouth go about Wang last year. Put the doubts to rest... release the video

I have no insight into whether or not it was televised. However, I'm curious as to what you mean by "The Track & Field website doesn't even recognize the records".

Technically, the records are IAAF-Ratified and listed on T&F News, meaning that they recognize them as the official records, although they indicate that they believe the records themselves are flawed. Notably though, T&F News is not the governing body, so they do not have a say in the matter.

Of course, most of us know in the back of our heads that the records are almost 100% drug-aided.

I'll just tell you now though, that you won't get the answers you want. If any of us knew how to find the information you're asking for, this topic would've been settled a long time ago.

On that note, by starting this thread, you've likely put forth the first step in a cascade that is going to, once again, spiral into a tedious argument about whether or not the track was short, the entire games were a hoax, they started laps in the wrong places, etc. It's been going on for years, and this year is probably not going to be the year that it stops.

This is the photographer that took the photos. Someone can email perhaps

I appreciate your word of warning! haha

The video footage is the answer to this riddle though, and I just don't understand why high profile female runners haven't used their sway to either:

a) get the video released

b) elicit a laughable public response from the IAAF

... or the very unlikely....

c) elicit a satisfying public response from the IAAF

bumfeeler wrote:

First, I don't buy that the Chinese Games ever carried more pretige than an international event. Why would it?

This point of yours makes absolutely no sense. "Why would it"? Well, why would it not? Why don't you buy that? You need to support your statements.

If you know anything about China, then that you'd know it's very likely that they values their own games as much or more than international games.

I don't buy that the NBA Finals ever carried more prestige than an international event (like the Olympics or FIBA Basketball World Cup). Why would it?

How popular is athletics in the United States, despite its overall dominance as a world force?

Patrick E. Taylor, head of the New York Times's Beijing office, was there

"We have no doubt the marks themselves are legitimate, even the 10,000," said Jeff Hollobaugh, managing editor of Track & Field News. "We had a correspondent there. Omega timers were there. She did run 25 laps. We have great skepticism about what might be going on there, but as far as the actual marks, they are legitimate."

-John Crumpacker, SF Examiner

September 26, 1993

You can see from the video clips and photos available that the events were timed/measured by Omega. And Omega doesn't just mail over tens of thousands of dollars of equipment. It was set up and operated by timers from Switzerland (as noted in Hollobaugh's quote above).

It was on CCTV at the time and I think shown to some extent in Japan at some point afterwards.

I remember when Wang broke the women's 10K record back in '93. It was such a huge margin that some were actually questioning whether or not she was indeed a women. I am not talking about the average joe on the street, but rather some of the top international coaches. Some were asking to see a Chromosome test conducted. She also set an unofficial worldrecord for 8K, but it was done obver the last 8K of her marathon debut!!!! This is simply unheard of. I recall experts saying that even drugs could not bring out such results. Keep in mind that the Chinese men's times were not improving....only the women's times. Apparantly there were rumours (just rumours) that the Chinese had switched some boys to girls after birth in order to produce top swimmers and track athletes to show Chinese dominence. I find it incredibly difficult to believe this, but it certainly is an interesting conspiracy theory. I wonder if anyone ever conducted a gender test on Wang and her sister Que (who smashed the 3K record). Where are they now?

I don't see any reason to think there was something wrong with the stadium or the timing. With they way they cleaned up at the 1993 World Championships, and from what we know about Ma, it is clear they were doped. No reason to think they didn't run those ridiculous times in a paced race.

Sickening to watch. But after watching I don't doubt the WRs happened either.

You are aware that Wang has given birth to children? Most recently in Colorado in 2010.

1993 eh?

No coincidence that out of the blue at the 1994 world swimming championships, Chinese women swimmers turned up and won 12 of the 16 gold medals available in the women’s events.

That obvious scam came to an end at the following world championships in Perth when, during a routine customs check on Chinese swimmer Yuan Yuan’s luggage, enough human growth hormone was discovered to supply the entire women's swimming team for the duration of the championships.

As it happened - only Yuan was sanctioned for the incident, with speculation that this was connected to the nomination of Juan Antonio Samaranch by China for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993.

Also, further tests in Perth also found the presence of the banned diuretic masking agent triamterine in the urine of four swimmers, Wang Luna, Yi Zhang, Huijue Cai and Wei Wang - they were suspended from competition for two years, with the three coaches associated with the swimmers,

Jeff Wigfield,

I'm not American, nor do I follow NBA, but I'd guess your domestic game is stronger than international events and hence more prestigious. I don't claim to be an authority on this point, and I may well be wrong, but I won't believe without good reason that a Chinese National Games medal could ever be pawned for more than an Olympic one. Either way, let us not dwell on this point.

Thanks for the quotes from Crumpacker.. interesting stuff. Unfortunately, being in China, I'm not allowed to open the NYtimes link.

Do you have a source to support it being shown on CCTV?

I'm not really interested in getting into debates here about conspiracy theories, I'm just puzzled as to why there's no figures within athletics asking to see this video. With yourself presumably not being a crier of any "short track" theory, what would be your take on why the video has never made it's way into the public domain? Why are high profile athletes and figures within athletics not pushing to get the video out there? It seems oh so strange. The greatest races ever run and only a few fans want to see them... surely not?

I just wanted to point that this picture:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/feature-chn-wang-junxia-in-action-alone-during-w10000m-news-photo/50724765?cid=4157&lid=12413&esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532

by Forrest Anderson says it was taken on the 1st of September 1993.

"CHN Wang Junxia in action alone during W10000M. (Photo by Forrest Anderson//Time Life Pictures/Getty Images)"

Wang set the 10,000 record one week later on September 8th.

http://www.iaaf.org/records/toplists/middlelong/10000-metres/outdoor/women/senior

So what was that picture then?

The Manual Ceneta photo of the 3000 was taken on the 13th which was the 8:06 day.

Can't find any video clips of this race.

But that was her 4th world record run in 6 days.

Setting a world record in a prelim in a distance event (after already setting two world records that week) still sets off alarms in my head about the time and distance.

And Wang splitting world records while closing her 10,000 defies anything ever seen in history.

To me, saying it's drugs is like hearing that a guy lifted a car over his head and saying he's on drugs. No drug is going to let a man lift a car over his head.