Did Mark Wetmore outfox everyone in the Pac 12 and haver his guys go out harder than everyone else?

5335' is hardly "high altitude". SaO2 might be 2-3% lower for those not adapted, which makes a difference of 20-30 seconds for 8K. That's significant, obviously, no arguing that. Just saying 5335' is moderate altitude at the most.

It's hardly genius to take it out fast at moderate altitude, or in any other condition where the home team is adapted to something visitors are not. What coach doesn't realize if you go deep into the red early at altitude you can't recover?

Not really a "source" in the sense that this person has inside knowledge of Wetmore's communications with his team. Your "source" is just offering some speculation about what he thinks Wetmore probably had his team do.

I was there, too, and it's my opinion that, with 3 Buffs leading the entire early going, Wetmore told his team to take it out hard.

This is bass ackwards. A smart coach would tell his athletes NOT to go out with the locals, and instead stay in contact and work their way up.

But, runners do what their gonna do once the gun goes off.

As others have said, who cares, it is only the final race of the season that matters in XC.

Your source sounds like Vigilante.

Altitude.org wrote:

5335' is hardly "high altitude". SaO2 might be 2-3% lower for those not adapted, which makes a difference of 20-30 seconds for 8K. That's significant, obviously, no arguing that. Just saying 5335' is moderate altitude at the most.

It's hardly genius to take it out fast at moderate altitude, or in any other condition where the home team is adapted to something visitors are not. What coach doesn't realize if you go deep into the red early at altitude you can't recover?

Genius isn't about your strategy, it's about predicting the competitions strategy and using it to your advantage. All these coaches know what happens if you go out to hard at 5000 feet, yet it appears CU manipulated those teams into doing the one thing that they should not have done.... GENIUS!

Genius is a term that is waaaaay overused on this site.

Altitude.org wrote:

5335' is hardly "high altitude". SaO2 might be 2-3% lower for those not adapted, which makes a difference of 20-30 seconds for 8K. That's significant, obviously, no arguing that. Just saying 5335' is moderate altitude at the most.

It's hardly genius to take it out fast at moderate altitude, or in any other condition where the home team is adapted to something visitors are not. What coach doesn't realize if you go deep into the red early at altitude you can't recover?

Have you ever run at 5300? Raced? 5300 is pretty significant, especially for someone who did not have time to get properly acclimated - which takes 1-2 weeks depending on the individual. And about you conversion estimate: The NCAA altitude converter gives a 14:00 sea level 5k 14:26 at 5300 (and 28:00 10k becomes 29:02). I would imagine that puts the 8k conversion closer to 45-50 seconds.

I run in college wrote:

Have you ever run at 5300? Raced? 5300 is pretty significant, especially for someone who did not have time to get properly acclimated - which takes 1-2 weeks depending on the individual. And about you conversion estimate: The NCAA altitude converter gives a 14:00 sea level 5k 14:26 at 5300 (and 28:00 10k becomes 29:02). I would imagine that puts the 8k conversion closer to 45-50 seconds.

Yes, lots of experience at altitude. Sea-level native who has raced at altitude while living at sea-level and after living at moderate altitude (~6250') for several years.

I can't download the calculator, my antivirus software doesn't seem to think it's a good idea.

What does 13:09 for 5000 and 1:42.12 for 800, both at 5300', calculate out to for sea-level?

That's actually an old Jerry Quiller trick, aka Whetmores former boss.

I run in college wrote:

5300 is pretty significant, especially for someone who did not have time to get properly acclimated - which takes 1-2 weeks depending on the individual.

False. You should stop commenting on physiology.

altitude.org. Show me where those times were EVER run at >5,000 ft. Your point is mute.

Also, 5,000 ft FEELS significant. I was an RMAC runner and know something about racing at altitude.

Regardless of scientific possibilities, running at altitude just plain hurts in this soul-drenching, entire-body fatiguing sort of way. Tactics are reserved for the acclimated while the others merely ride the pain train.

Yes , I think many forget who was Whetmore's mentor , Q !

And yes Q would have had us test the field at altitude.

Wetmore's quote is accurate. Guys disobeyed and pushed the pace. Not Wetmore's advice. Ended up working out in the end.

Lives @ > 7,000 wrote:

altitude.org. Show me where those times were EVER run at >5,000 ft. Your point is mute.

Also, 5,000 ft FEELS significant. I was an RMAC runner and know something about racing at altitude.

Regardless of scientific possibilities, running at altitude just plain hurts in this soul-drenching, entire-body fatiguing sort of way. Tactics are reserved for the acclimated while the others merely ride the pain train.

for future reference, it's "moot" not "mute".

i know it FEELS significant. i'm not saying it isn't. just saying 5000' is not HIGH altitude, it's at the lower level of MODERATE. SaO2 lowers a little bit and the air is typically dryer, both of which don't make for a nice sensation to the unacclimatized runner.

the hardest thing is staying focused through that pain, most guys simply aren't ready for that sort of suffering and the elastic snaps well before the race is over.

Q and CTC wrote:

Yes , I think many forget who was Whetmore's mentor , Q !

And yes Q would have had us test the field at altitude.

Yep! Q's normative MO for his teams was to race in relative negative splits IIRC, but he'd often throw caution to the wind when there was a perceivable altitude (read: mental) advantage.

is this a joke? why wouldn't Wetmore just say what he told them to do?

Also, it didn't matter if they obeyed him or not, they were the only acclimated team and were going to win no matter what.

yes 5,300 is enough to throw off a bunch of sea levelers into premature oxygen debt.