Does the Lydiard/Wetmore system do enough to develop speed?

agreed, I want to know

speed endurance is a big factor.

I went from a 63 quarter to a 56 in a year doing only speed endurance and no real speed. Also dropped 18 seconds from my mile, 4:55 to about a 37 and 35 in a 2 mile getting from 10:38 to 10:03... (I know those times suck but smd letsrun)

pls see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Snell

Wetmore isn't really known for his 800/1500 guys is he? The only one I can think of is Jenny B. on the women's side.

Lydiard is nothing but speed training.

trollist the third wrote:

pls see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Snell

Peter Snell the fast runner on earth. Unbeatable.

Pondering wrote:

Re reading Running with Buffs today and thinking about Lydiard's quote: (paraphrased) "there are lots of runners in the world who can run 46 seconds for 400 meters, but only a few who can run 1:44 for 800 meters, or two laps of 52 seconds. Therefore it is far more essential to train endurance."

What if the runner doesn't have the 47-48 speed needed at the minimum to go 1:44? Isn't it necessary to train speed? This goes for 1,500-5,000 as well.

Lydiard was big on developing raw sprinting speed throughout the year. This entails doing very short, fast repeats of 30-40m with full recovery. This is not what distance guys think of as speedwork, but is the best way to develop all-out speed.

Lydiard is God wrote:

Lydiard was big on developing raw sprinting speed throughout the year. This entails doing very short, fast repeats of 30-40m with full recovery. This is not what distance guys think of as speedwork, but is the best way to develop all-out speed.

Very true. Lydiard's disciples would often do the short sprints 3-5x a week barefoot on grass.

Lydiard is God wrote:

Lydiard was big on developing raw sprinting speed throughout the year. This entails doing very short, fast repeats of 30-40m with full recovery.

This is exactly what I thought when I read up on Lydiard's training. In a nutshell my take-home message from his base-training ideas boiled down to 2 points:

1. Do a bunch of aerobic running with as much of it as possible at fast (but still aerobic) speeds, including a long run at least 1x week.

2. Do a bunch of short, fast (almost flat out speed) sprints (I believe Lydiard used the term "wind sprints") a few times per week.

One of Lydiard's "critiques" of the training methods of the Japanese was that they focused a lot on point 1 but did not pay enough attention to point 2.

Yes, the Lydiard system does a lot to develop speed, once you've developed a good base of endurance.

Pondering wrote:

Re reading Running with Buffs today and thinking about Lydiard's quote: (paraphrased) "there are lots of runners in the world who can run 46 seconds for 400 meters, but only a few who can run 1:44 for 800 meters, or two laps of 52 seconds. Therefore it is far more essential to train endurance."

What if the runner doesn't have the 47-48 speed needed at the minimum to go 1:44? Isn't it necessary to train speed? This goes for 1,500-5,000 as well.

rekrunner wrote:

Yes, the Lydiard system does a lot to develop speed, once you've developed a good base of endurance.

Speed cannot be neglected for months when 47-48speed is needed. Or slower, if you try to reach your best at 800m.

Lydiard periodization is ridiculous.

If you need it don't neglect it. Lydiard did not neglect speed when it was needed.No one talked about periodization.

tguyhijk wrote:

Speed cannot be neglected for months when 47-48speed is needed. Or slower, if you try to reach your best at 800m.

Lydiard periodization is ridiculous.

Its not about flat out speed , its about developing strength and endurance to carry a maintained speed over a specific distance. A great kick does nothing if your not at the front to begin with.

Base Training

1) Develop an aerobic base by running many miles at a high end aerobic pace

2) Develop a speed base by doing short sprints (40-60m) at maximum effort with full recovery

---

3) Once the above two things are accomplished, marry the two together with speed endurance workouts

This is lydiard training in a nutshell.

Most people understand the necessity of the first point, but not the second.

Among 800m, 1500m, 5000m and 10000m is the distance you need less speed to win is the 800m.

core of training wrote:

Among 800m, 1500m, 5000m and 10000m is the distance you need less speed to win is the 800m.

Can a brother get a translation on this?^^

The what now wrote:

core of training wrote:

Among 800m, 1500m, 5000m and 10000m is the distance you need less speed to win is the 800m.

Can a brother get a translation on this?^^

Everything other than the 800m is won with a kick. Basically Mo Farah bashing

Hes trying to say that speed is more important in winning 5/10ks these days than 800s.

James Harden wrote:

Hes trying to say that speed is more important in winning 5/10ks these days than 800s.

In a relative sense, this is true.

In an absolute sense, obviously not.