Mayors Cup - Wrong way, what happened?

SeriousQuestion wrote:

Ghola wrote:

You're misunderstanding. The official TOLD them to go that way. Doesn't matter how well you think you know the course, you're going to go the way the official tells you to.

You're misunderstanding. A random spectator told the biker to go the wrong way, after being given correct directions. NOT an official.

Whoa...so now we have random spectators dictating to the official on the bike which way to go??? How is this acceptable?

Still no official word from the usatf on this blunder...

Maybe if they stay quiet long enough people will forget it ever happened.

I agree, how about some statement by the USATF explaining what happened? It's like in baseball, when the umpires make a controversial call, typically the commissioner will have a press conference and at least somewhat explain what happened

The poster above is correct - the kid on the bike went the right way. Some spectator told him he was going the 'wrong way' and pointed him toward bear cage hill. Before that could be corrected, a dozen people give or take had turned left.

I understand the rules about being DQd for going off course and whatnot, but I think everyone needs to relax. This wasn't New Englands and it wasn't the club championships either. USATF doesn't need to get involved other than to make sure that it doesn't happen on November 10.

This was a usatf Grand Prix race.

Steve Vaitones, a usatf official, was at the end telling runners -

"If you've done the hill already go right, if you haven't, go left"

Usatf ALREADY IS INVOLVED.

We at least deserve an explanation as to why the runners were not dq'ed, why the dude on the bike didn't know the course, and why there was no official directing traffic at the turn where this happened.

But considering the usatf doesn't even have results posted from the cross country Grand Prix race that happened THREE WEEKS AGO, I'm not anticipating an explanation.

It certainly would be comical to see Vaitones post on this thread in his typical c

Ghola wrote:

You're misunderstanding. The official TOLD them to go that way. Doesn't matter how well you think you know the course, you're going to go the way the official tells you to.

Correct. You can say "it's the athlete's responsibility to know the course" as much as you want, but the fact is that there will be circumstances when a course gets changed mid-race. If a course official directs you to go a certain way that is the way you go. (Note, I have changed my thinking on this 180° as I've gotten into directing and working the technical side of races.) A couple examples where blindly following the pre-printed course map that would have gotten you in trouble: Boston Marathon 2013, Pittsburgh Marathon 2010, Flying Pig Marathon 2008.

Let's say you're racing Mayor's Cup and you know the course. You get to that place where you either go left to go to Bear Cage or you go right to go back to the Wilderness. It's time to go left, but you get directed right. How do you know there isn't something going on on Bear Cage that has caused the entire course to change?

I've always wondered why races at Franklin Park don't put up some simple signs at a few key places to direct runners. I've been going down there to coach for 13 years and I still get confused between the 5k, 6k, 8k, 10k courses. For example, that split I noted above (go left to go to Bear Cage, go right to go back to the Wilderness or to the finish line...it would be simple to have a coroplast sign at that turn "1st time go left, 2nd time go right, etc". That would be a big help for the Course Monitors working that area, lead bikers, etc.

d2xccoach wrote:

I've been going down there to coach for 13 years and I still get confused between the 5k, 6k, 8k, 10k courses.

Well then you're a moron...

10k = 8k + wilderness

= 5k + wilderness/bearcage + wilderness

= stadium + stadium+bearcage + wilderness + wilderness/bearcage + wilderness

And forget the 6k, what the hek is a 6k anyway

OverTheHillAndBackAgain wrote:

d2xccoach wrote:

I've been going down there to coach for 13 years and I still get confused between the 5k, 6k, 8k, 10k courses.

Well then you're a moron...

10k = 8k + wilderness

= 5k + wilderness/bearcage + wilderness

= stadium + stadium+bearcage + wilderness + wilderness/bearcage + wilderness

And forget the 6k, what the hek is a 6k anyway

6K is what women run at the championship level.

The meet management eff'd up, admit it. Next time hire someone who can ride a bike and pay attention at the same time.

At the end of the day, the guys who won the money are the guys that probably would have won the race anyways whether they ran the correct course or not. HOWEVER, the fact that they ran the incorrect course yet were counted in the results automatically changes the race for all the other runners. That is not fair.

I don't care what BAA thinks about how they handled the situation, they are wrong. This is why running will never be a main stream sport. Even the people running the proverbial show cater to the few good runners who would have complained the most because they would have won. So instead, the officials change the rules and think nothing of it. Yes, it's not like this was the Olympic Trials but it doesn't matter. You don't think the officials would have called an obstruction call in a Minor league baseball game?

If they treat the simple sport of running like a joke and have a blatant disregard for the rules, then running will remain a joke. This would have been great press for the running community. But instead, I walk away with a huge sense of disappointment since I was one of the guys to turn around and run the correct course and I want my $25 back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffUCnwh_KQc

Anybody who didn't complete the course as prescribed before the event should be disqualified---even if the route that was taken was longer than the one designed and even if a biker led them astray. Sanctioned races need to follow rules.

MN to the MN wrote:

Anybody who didn't complete the course as prescribed before the event should be disqualified---even if the route that was taken was longer than the one designed and even if a biker led them astray. Sanctioned races need to follow rules.

Agreed.

I was in the race towards the back. As I was taking the left towards bear cage I noticed at least two runners ahead of me take a right and finish. Both of these runners were near me the entire race and definitely did not go the wrong way initially with the lead back. So I know of at least two runners who dramatically cut the course, skipping the entire bear cage hill section at the end. I know these guys were at the back of the back and it "doesn't matter" as far as prize money goes, but it's still crazy to me to have taken part in such a dysfunctional race.

MN to the MN wrote:

Anybody who didn't complete the course as prescribed before the event should be disqualified---even if the route that was taken was longer than the one designed and even if a biker led them astray. Sanctioned races need to follow rules.

+1

A race isn't decided based on hypothetical equivalence between times. Races are decided by people beating other people who are actually running the same course at the same time. Anything else and you have 2 races going on.

It sounds like officials should have DQed people but didn't because they would be admitting that they screwed up.

I remember this one well -- out with injury and was a spectator. Spoonire (who actually beat Quintana convincingly at Big East that year) and Wilbur had separated from the pack and were set to battle it out for the win. They got sent the wrong way after coming out of the wilderness -- the spectators were lining the course wrong. Some others in the chase pack started to follow, but a runner who knew it was wrong supposedly busted through the spectators and got things back on track (I was standing closer to Bear Cage entrance didn't see it). Those in the chase pack quickly recovered, because that was the lead group that I saw come by me over near Bear Cage shortly after. However, Wilbur and Spoonire were long gone. They had to backtrack and finished buried in the field. Good call by the officials on advancing Spoonire, but Dartmouth didn't get the IC4A title it would have won. That's a race I'll never forget.

How come no one messed up the course last year? obviously society is getting dumber every year.

NEtransfer wrote:

How come no one messed up the course last year? obviously society is getting dumber every year.

They didn't have the race last year. Franklin park was closed for the season for renovations. There was chatter/gossip about the course and if it would need to be altered. Confusion.

I hate to see this happen but it sure does. As an old timer I remember this one in 1978 National Cross Country in Seattle. I believe the entire field including Alberto & Greg were directed the wrong way:

December 04, 1978

Big Week For The Old Runaround

In back-to-back collegiate and AAU cross-country championships, the entrants were confronted by a variety of challenges, from finding a way to keep from freezing to just plain finding the right way to the finish line

Barry McDermott

Thus Salazar's biggest competition would come, in effect, from himself. Could he return with only four days' rest to master the steep slopes of the West Seattle Golf Course?

If the course was brutal, at least the 46° temperature was more hospitable than Wisconsin's. After the first mile Salazar was again in the lead. Gradually the competition dropped away until it seemed certain that either Salazar or Greg Meyer, who has run a sub-four-minute mile indoors, would win. Salazar is from Wayland, Mass. and Meyer from Boston. The two are good friends. As they raced, they proposed that they finish together, especially since the rest of the field, save for one lone runner, had somehow made a wrong turn and was hopelessly off course. As race officials vectored the addled athletes back and forth to get in the required 10,000 meters, Salazar and Meyer approached the final hill. And there they decided to sprint to the tape. For a moment Salazar surged ahead, leaning at what he thought was the finish line—except that his estimate was 15 yards short. He finished muddy and regretful. "Now I'm sorry we decided to run together," he said.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1094375/1/index.htm

OverTheHillAndBackAgain wrote:

d2xccoach wrote:

I've been going down there to coach for 13 years and I still get confused between the 5k, 6k, 8k, 10k courses.

Well then you're a moron...

10k = 8k + wilderness

= 5k + wilderness/bearcage + wilderness

= stadium + stadium+bearcage + wilderness + wilderness/bearcage + wilderness

And forget the 6k, what the hek is a 6k anyway

I coach on 15-20 different courses a year. I produce or do course design/measurement for another 10-15 races. I'm supposed to remember that the FP 10k is:

stadium + stadium/bearcage + wilderness + wilderness/bearcage + wilderness + wilderness/bearcage + wilderness + wilderness

Yeah, that ain't happening, I flunked calculus.

Is this an issue anywhere outside of this thread?

d2xccoach wrote:

Yeah, that ain't happening, I flunked calculus.

Great. Thanks for confirming my initial thoughts.