Do you think Alberto would be competitive with the Kenyans if he was a young runner today???

AlSal couldn't hang with Henry Rono back in the day. Jim Ryun couldn't hang with Kip Keino back in 1968. Kenyan domination goes way back.

No

itrollforfree wrote:

AlSal couldn't hang with Henry Rono back in the day. Jim Ryun couldn't hang with Kip Keino back in 1968. Kenyan domination goes way back.

Gee, I wonder how Ryun broke 5 world records and AlSal won 4 major marathons if they couldn't compete with the Kenyans?

Ryun lost to Kip at altitude in '68 OG,

but I saw him destroy Kip Keino in '67 at LA Colisium.

To this day only 10 Americans have run faster than Ryun did that day in L.A.

Take a look at the historical results of the NYC marathon. Not much of a diffrrence. Chicago and London were second tier races in Salazars day. Hyperfast flat courses just didn, t exist.

Coulf the africans run 2.09.30 into a headwind as Alberto did in 1982 NYCM? Maybe.

Jalapeño Chips wrote:

No

He said it first.

I'm going to go ahead and say yes, he would be, because he had what I think a lot of Americans lack (the will to focus solely on running to the exclusion of literally everything else and the balls to risk totally falling apart to win a race). I think he would be up there for a few years and then he would totally fall apart, just like he did.

itrollforfree wrote:

Jim Ryun couldn't hang with Kip Keino back in 1968. Kenyan domination goes way back.

Keino beat Ryun ONCE.

At altitude in mexico city (over 7000 feet).

The only other times Ryun was beaten by keino, which don't mean much, was a mile race in 1971 in which ryun was very ill with hay fever & finished DFL in over 4 minutes, and the opening heat at the munich olympic games in which Ryun was tripped by a no-name athlete.

Ryun beat Keino -

2 mile race (american record) - 1966

1500m race (world record) - 1967

mile race (white city) - 1967

indoor mile race (indoor world record) - 1971

history repeats wrote:

Take a look at the historical results of the NYC marathon. Not much of a diffrrence. Chicago and London were second tier races in Salazars day. Hyperfast flat courses just didn, t exist.

Coulf the africans run 2.09.30 into a headwind as Alberto did in 1982 NYCM? Maybe.

Have you ever run NYCM? Seen a map of it? If there was a headwind, there was a tailwind, too.

Al says he completely maxed out in terms of training effort, so no upside there. Maybe with some tinkering and gimmicks (e.g. thyroid supplementation) he had another minute or two in him.

Which puts him a mile behind Mutai in NYC.

Dennis Reynolds wrote:

So Ryun was the Alan Webb of the past, a guy who could run fast but couldn't win the races that matter. Keino won the big one. Get over it.

Keino was an athlete of the second tier who was lucky that the 1968 Olympics were held at altitude where he had an advantage, that he had a buddy act as pacer for him a la El G and Adil Kaouch, and that the greatest miler to ever walk the face of the earth had had mono the year before and happened to have an off day.

Kip Keino was one of the greatest runners in history, raced prolifically with everyone available, and ended up with two Olympic gold medals and two silvers. Ryun did not compare to him.

I do think Alberto Salazar would be competitive with the current crop of Kenyan marathoners, provided he changed his training to compete with them. Mentally, he definitely had the courage and tenacity to compete.

If a young Salazar trained like Rupp does today, he would have run under 26:40 and 2:03.

not to mention he would have a world beating kick, like rupp, farah and makloufi.

Critical Thinking wrote:Keino was an athlete of the second tier who was lucky that the 1968 Olympics were held at altitude where he had an advantage, that he had a buddy act as pacer for him a la El G and Adil Kaouch, and that the greatest miler to ever walk the face of the earth had had mono the year before and happened to have an off day.

that is the dumbest comment posted here in years

keino, a "2nd tierer" who broke the 5k wr & smashed the 3k from 7'46 to 7'39 & off just 1500 training

he was in at worst 3'30 shape according to bannister & 3'25 shape according to tim noakes

i go somewhere in middle with 3'27 using ncaa app :

& modifying corrected time for less air resistance with

as for "personal pacer", that is more nonsense if anyone bothers to watch the race

jipcho may have thought he was going to do kip a favour & speed off, but he doesn't appear to have told kip about this, as he starts the race dead fuucking last & has to speed up to catch jipcho when he realised he was charging off - a hugely inefficient way to run for kip on 1st lap & throwing away energy

if kip had been party to jipcho's plan he wouda followed ben from the getgo, running fast even 1st lap

ventolin^3 wrote:he was in at worst 3'30 shape according to bannister & 3'25 shape according to tim noakes

i go somewhere in middle with 3'27 using ncaa app :

http://www.fileguru.com/NCAA-Altitude-Conversion/info

& modifying corrected time for less air resistance with

http://myweb.lmu.edu/jmureika/track/wind/index.html

mexico is at 7,381'

highest place close on ncaa app is laramie at 7,163'

entering 3'34.91 ->3'26.58

now, i reckon this doesn't include correction for air-resistance, so use that calculator

3'34.91 = 14.327s for 100m

enter in wind-altitude calculator for mexico -> 14.425s

therefore corrected time =

3'26.58 * ( 14.425/14.327 ) ->3'27.99

now, he did go solo from 800 out so couda expected 1s more of drafting & he went 56/60 at start, so some uneveness

i'd have to go with something like

mid-3'26

shape that day at sea-level in a perfect tt, with pacing to bell

in other words, i reckon keino that day was almost same level as a bernie or noah

also indicates ryun in something like 3'29/3'30 shape, not bad for him, but long way from his '67 shape, which wouda probably had him beating keino by coupla secs in mexico

xenonscreams wrote:

I'm going to go ahead and say yes, he would be, because he had what I think a lot of Americans lack (the will to focus solely on running to the exclusion of literally everything else and the balls to risk totally falling apart to win a race).

Huh? Don't we have tons of guys who do that? Didn't Ritz and Teg both blow up last marathon? You've raced a marathon, you surely know you can't just "gut" your way to another 2 minutes?

Forget what Salazar would do on today's training, I want to see how much better today's guys would do in the 1980's. Aside from Hall we were better time-wise AND place-wise.

xenonscreams wrote:

I'm going to go ahead and say yes, he would be, because he had what I think a lot of Americans lack (the will to focus solely on running to the exclusion of literally everything else and the balls to risk totally falling apart to win a race).

Hardloper wrote:

Huh? Don't we have tons of guys who do that? Didn't Ritz and Teg both blow up last marathon? You've raced a marathon, you surely know you can't just "gut" your way to another 2 minutes?

Forget what Salazar would do on today's training, I want to see how much better today's guys would do in the 1980's. Aside from Hall we were better time-wise AND place-wise.

Yeah, wtf is xenon thinking. Just because athletes cant compete with africans doesnt mean they are not giving it their all to be best. And like you said, cant gut your way to another 2 minutes, that is just wishful thinking.

Funny to read this post. I saw Al Sal race Tanzania's Suleiman Nyambui (silver in the 5,000 meters behind Yifter at '80 Olympics in Moscow) back in early 80's at the Melrose Games. They were together until the last few laps when Nyambui got a ahead and held it to the end. I imagine pretty much the same would happen nowadays if AL Sal went up the Kenyans in the marathon.

He is better than them. Salazar has nothing to prove. Anyone who can duel in the sun. And nearly die twice for running belongs in he hall of fame. No questions asked.