Why are we so quick to believe these 2:03 performances are not drug-tainted?

Lance would have been caught under modern methods. And he had teammate after teammate implicate him. That hasn't been the case here.

The amount of money available on the roads increased dramatically. There are many more marathons offering much more money than 15 years ago. If you're some Kenyan or Ethiopian hopefully, it's become a more likely avenue to earn money from road racing and the marathon specifically than as 5000m or 10000m runner.

Trolling? What conditions contributed to Ritzenhein's ancestors having cardiovascular and phenotype adaptations to running long distances in thin air?

And besides, Ritzenhein is still a better marathon runner than Zersenay Tadesse. Not everyone gets it right.

Those two performed pretty well under the circumstances. They had to run the London Marathon in April as if it were their championship and then weren't able to rebuild to full strength ahead of the Olympics.

There are a lot of variables that go into racing, as you should know. Someone with amazing fitness who can survive a sustained effort one day in January might not be able to handle a wildly variating pace in a different marathon seven months later. Abebe Bikila was untouchable in his Olympic efforts, but could only manage fifth in Boston.

Tell me how this conspiracy is kept under wraps better than mob secrets of the NSA's. Lance was a national hero with many, many millions of dollars and he couldn't stop the leaks.

The Ethiopians didn't really want to race the WC. They prefer to make money in e.g. Dubai and so they were not fit and ready at Moscow. Nothing to do with dope!!

yeah can't think of a single black athlete caught doping.

land of the slave wrote:

we've been brainwashed to think blacks are sweet little angels who never cheat. white guilt is a terrible thing. think something bad about a black like anyone else, and it be racism!

total corruption. wrote:

Wake up sheeple. Anything under 2:07 is doping for sure.

BUT RYAN HALL WOULD NEEEEEEVVVVVVEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR CHEEEEEEAT!!!

Folks...here is how we will get our answer on the whole doping thing. So going back a few years ago I believe a journalist took PED while doing some cycling to see the effects...while that is great and all why not have a company or governing body step forth and

1. Offer a 2 year sponsorship deal to an up and coming non-african marathoner type (2:09-2:13)...

2. Medically review their training, body type, genetics, diet, basically all factors leading up to that point.

3. Put the athlete on a monitored plan of PEDS for that period of time.

4. Chart all changes in blood, body composition, training load, injuries and performances.

5. Try to beat tests and use cycles that would reflect ramping up to big races...mimic how dirty athletes are trying to beat the system already.

6. Compile results, see the improvements and come to the stark realization that 2:03 is possible when filled with drugs.

I've mentioned this before to some people and they said that this is unethical and nobody would fund it. I would think information from a study like this would be valuable not only in terms of how it effects performance but we can now see in a "controlled medical environment" how PEDS adversely effect athletes. It might also be a great value to do pre and post psychological testing to see the changes that occur in that area as well.

I think Tegenkamp would be a great candidate. I'd be willing to bet good money that 2 years from now he is a 2:05 guy. Does Shalane become a 2:17 girl with help in the lab???

In the USA we have the greatest panel of PED experts in the world...consult Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, A-Rod, Barry Bonds...why not use their expertise to help us...don't they owe us????

Anyway, food for thought.

JC

Why are you so quick to believe they are drug tainited?

Oh let me guess, you be trollin?

Teg and Shalane are not the type to take the dope.

Shalane is too hot looking to change that bod, and Teg is very religious.

jono wrote:

Why are you so quick to believe they are drug tainited?

Oh let me guess, you be trollin?

Watchu be talkin bout Willis?

Those 2:03 guys are running much fast than I EVER could. Therefore they MUST be doping.

QED

If I ruled the World...........

The truth is out there wrote:

#2 - How can 2:03 guys be THAT much more talented and work THAT much harder than a guy like Ritz, who also is no slouch with a 12:56 to his name and works very hard. I just find it hard to believe just because this guy's ancestors were Masai warriors he can run 2:03 just like that. Well - Ritz's ancestors were pillaging European barbarians, which also required stamina and plenty of strength!!!

They really do work that much harder, that's how.

Mutai and Kimetto run up to 150 mpw (240km) on hilly terrain.

Ritzenhein runs at most 110 on a woodchip track and on an ANTIGRAVITY treadmill.

Who do you think is doing to run a faster marathon? This is like comparing a 100 mpw college runner to a 65 mpw guy. Different leagues.

Canova publicly discussed the marathon training of his athletes and other Kenyans. Hansons and Hudson do the same, and frankly it's not hard to see why the US is off the pace.

If Salazar revealed the "secret" of how little Ritz works (relative to true elites) nobody would be surprised to see him blowing up six minutes off the leaders.

Agree. Just read Running With The Kenyans, you'll have a complete understanding why they are so good. Canova talked about focus - single minded focus and professional approach of Kipsang.

So Rupp with 26:48 and 12:58 is not true elite?

Surely trolling?

off shell?

Wasn't this done in East Germany in the 70s? And COmmunist China a decade or two later?

Um, ever heard of paula radcliffe?

People are quick to think they are not tainted?

The whole sport's tainted, so of course the best are on drugs.

runnerboy1 wrote:

Agree. Just read Running With The Kenyans, you'll have a complete understanding why they are so good. Canova talked about focus - single minded focus and professional approach of Kipsang.

It's called Train Hard Win Easy: The Kenyan Way, not "Running with the Kenyans".

Anyway, I've read it, and they don't train harder or smarter than the top level Americans. They're just, ON AVERAGE, more genetically predisposed to distance running, and as it is part of their culture they have their best athletes as distance runners instead of basketball players or football players.

george oscar bluth wrote:

runnerboy1 wrote:

Agree. Just read Running With The Kenyans, you'll have a complete understanding why they are so good. Canova talked about focus - single minded focus and professional approach of Kipsang.

It's called Train Hard Win Easy: The Kenyan Way, not "Running with the Kenyans".

Anyway, I've read it, and they don't train harder or smarter than the top level Americans. They're just, ON AVERAGE, more genetically predisposed to distance running, and as it is part of their culture they have their best athletes as distance runners instead of basketball players or football players.

According to Renato, they do train smarter for the marathon than the Americans. I think he knows what he is talking about. There are few that I would trust more than him when it comes to marathon training.

george oscar bluth wrote:

They're just, ON AVERAGE, more genetically predisposed to distance running,

There is nothing to support that statement.

iwk wrote:

george oscar bluth wrote:

They're just, ON AVERAGE, more genetically predisposed to distance running,

There is nothing to support that statement.

Yes, very true. All attempts to find special genetic advantages failed. It is pure nonsense to believe that a human population could maintain a special, unique genetic disposition.

There is a fundamental lack of controls in Kenya compared with other nations. Unknown talents can train there and get prepaired without any transparency until they are ready for a big race. Armys of agents invest all their knowledge and money and enjoy multiple paydays.