What are the US men missing in marathon training????

EPO.

Balls.

genetics

too much intensity-please go look at what the kenyans are doing

wasting time weight training- ok

not mentally committed = racing smart? if ritz pulled what the africans did and try go for the win he would have run 2:14+

U.S. college coaches -way to general but at the top level then no; they are developing great runners

The U.S. is simply in a transition phase, Hall and Meb are exiting stage left while Rupp, Derrick and others are still on the track. Ritz is just a placeholder now. Other than that yeah were behind probaly due to lack of depth caused by little interest in our culture.

what I dont understand is a couple years ago any american under 2:10 would be welcomed back a hero, now its called a diaster. Were getting faster but not catching up if that makes sense.

Not sold on that premise. Ritz was a 13:10/27 mid guy this year. The top dogs are probably more like 26:4x guys. Given that, Ritz being 4 minutes back is pretty reasonable...and today he had a rough day so was even further back

college runner wrote:

too much intensity-please go look at what the kenyans are doing

wasting time weight training- ok

not mentally committed = racing smart? if ritz pulled what the africans did and try go for the win he would have run 2:14+

U.S. college coaches -way to general but at the top level then no; they are developing great runners

The U.S. is simply in a transition phase, Hall and Meb are exiting stage left while Rupp, Derrick and others are still on the track. Ritz is just a placeholder now. Other than that yeah were behind probaly due to lack of depth caused by little interest in our culture.

what I dont understand is a couple years ago any american under 2:10 would be welcomed back a hero, now its called a diaster. Were getting faster but not catching up if that makes sense.

What are the Kenyans doing that US runners aren't? Are you saying the Kenyans are doing more intense training?

What are they missing???? How about growing up *running* as a means of catching your food and commuting to school, 10 miles one way? Didn't Geb even say he ran home for lunch and then back to school again? Not to mention, knowing that the only way to make your way out of extreme poverty is to win marathons (and there are 100 other guys in your village who can kick your butt on any given day, I would say the motivation factor is HUGE)

I mean come on, when the 2011 world record holder can't even make the Kenyan Olympic marathon team...these guys (Kenyans/Ethiopians) are just in another league and no other country will ever be able to do what they do.

it's a shame that you being a runner are just as clueless as the general masses. The Kenyans are good because of their genetics. Stop the ranting about desire and the running to school BS. Someone like Ritz has built a huge aerobic base over his lifetime and to question how badly he wants it is unfair.

Peace Out wrote:

What are they missing???? How about growing up *running* as a means of catching your food and commuting to school, 10 miles one way? Didn't Geb even say he ran home for lunch and then back to school again? Not to mention, knowing that the only way to make your way out of extreme poverty is to win marathons (and there are 100 other guys in your village who can kick your butt on any given day, I would say the motivation factor is HUGE)

I mean come on, when the 2011 world record holder can't even make the Kenyan Olympic marathon team...these guys (Kenyans/Ethiopians) are just in another league and no other country will ever be able to do what they do.

You are delusional if you think it's all about genetics. Do your homework.

Also, hypothetically if Ritz gets more injuries and let's say can't run anymore, it's not like he will starve to death. He'll coach or write a book or whatever else and live comfortably. His counterparts in East Africa: not so much. You can't possibly compare the motivation that Ritz has to an African runner because ultimately they have different reasons for doing what they do.

Tergat lived like 400m from his school and didn't start running until 19. The running everyday to school stuff is noise.

Peace Out wrote:

What are they missing???? How about growing up *running* as a means of catching your food and commuting to school, 10 miles one way? Didn't Geb even say he ran home for lunch and then back to school again? Not to mention, knowing that the only way to make your way out of extreme poverty is to win marathons (and there are 100 other guys in your village who can kick your butt on any given day, I would say the motivation factor is HUGE)

I mean come on, when the 2011 world record holder can't even make the Kenyan Olympic marathon team...these guys (Kenyans/Ethiopians) are just in another league and no other country will ever be able to do what they do.

Ritz probably ran 250 races or so (15 * 3 * 4) + (6 * 3 * 4) by the time he got out of college. Not sure that is the best training for world class marathons. Considering how many races he has run and how many injuries he has had, he does great.

which school, primary or secondary or both? Anyway, Tergat's an outlier.

Most Kenyans and Ethiopians have thousands of miles of running on dirt prior to Americans starting.

too many distractions + committing to running is not "cool". jobs, making $$$,internet, tv, movies, social events, etc. distract those with potential from training. US guys feel like they are "missing out on fun" that comes with these things if they commit to running. look at all the US guys between 2:20-2:30, tons of em. the 2:20-2:30 range is the new 2:10-2:20 for US marathoners.

old post from Renato:

Performances that 20-30 years ago were normal for European people (and also American : think of Johnny Gray, Barbosa, David Mack in 800m, Cram, Coe, Ovett, Spivey, Steve Scott in 1500, Moorcroft and Maree in 5000m, Mamede, Lopes, Antibo, Cova, Nenow, Salazar in 10000m, Mahmoud, Rowland, Panetta, Lambruschini, Garderud, Malinowski, Baumgartl, Maminski, Marsh, Croghan, Wesolowski in steeple), now are an exception, and always in a fast race dominated by African runners, while many years ago our athletes were the winners.

So, if is true that African runners were able to improve (but I think that Kenyans of 20 years ago were better than Kenyan of today : the difference is in more professionality and more selection today, because now running is a business, before was a pleasure), is more true that our technological society doesn't seem able to produce now the same talent of many years ago.

Speaking about middle-distance, we are now living a come-back to illiteracy, forgetting all what we learnt before.

New generations have no hystorical memory, and think that what happen today is all what is possible to do. That's the reason because many talk about doping also regarding normal performances, "deja vou" in the past without any particular assistance.

If Ron Clarke was able running in 27'39" in 1965 (38 years ago !) and at the moment no US runners are able running so fast, is because Kenyans are doped ? You understand how stupid thought is this one, and how much limited it is for the development of your activity.

Europe has yet Jon Brown, Keska, Vroemen, some Spanish, but we must recognize that they are not real number one, like were our top runners in the past.

The current generation talks about AMUSEMENT every time. Our world pushes for living every kind of amusement, that means TO ESCAPE FROM A LIFE THAT PEOPLE DON'T LIKE. Now is very difficult to find ideals, and there is no more the taste of winning something using your own ability.

In 1960, Herbert Elliot (22 years old) won OG beating the World Record with 3'35"6. That one was the last race of his career.

For winning Olympics, he took holidays from his job, beeing OG in September, and working Elliot as the most part of normal people.

At that time, there were three possibilities for using your time : for a job (and all people worked for living), for fun, for doing something that was your passion. So, not beeing possible to do well all the three activities, PASSION HAD TO COINCIDE WITH FUN, so every athlete spent his time working and training (and, of course, competing) without thinking about other amusements, because ATHLETICS ITSELF WAS A FUN.

Now, nobody wants to forgo the amusement, SO ATHLETES WANT THAT TRAINING AND COMPETING COINCIDE WITH THEIR JOB.

Young people speak about "big sacrifices" for training, forgoing many types of amusements with great regrets.

This is a way to look at athletics activity not "positive". The motivation and the pleasure to reach some results in an activity that you love must be greater than the regret of what you don't do.

This is not an African attitude. Who wants to succeed, during the period of his activity is concentrated only in training and in competing, and doesn't lack other activities.

So, western athletes have too much waste of concentration in their activity, because that one is our lifestyle.

This is the reason because I cannot train a white runner for winning a medal in OG (also if, for example, Sergey Lebid was silver in WCCCh two years ago).

But someone has to think that, if it's easy for a coach of Kenyans to win races against white runners, is not so easy to win against other african runners... That one is the current challenge for testing your methodology.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=220022&page=7#ixzz2hdD6IQjK

I'm really only interested in what Renato Canova has to say about this.

NIKE PAYS THEM WAY TOO MUCH (especially Teg).

Africans are fighting for their lives.

Americans aren't hungry enough.

Watch the video of Allistair and Solinsky. They'd rather pace for cash.

Secret Ingrediant wrote:

Our best US marathoner was 4+ minutes behind the no name 4th place finisher. We're missing something in training and racing.

Youthfulness?

^^^^this is the answer.

As a coach I see it with athletes. The hungriest ones are relentless in pursuit of their goals. No matter what roadblocks they come across, they persevere. They are the ones who race to win. They put themselves in position to win when it counts.

Case in point, as marathoners, the only difference between Teg and Craig Leon is Teg makes over $100k a year, got $50k for appearance, and had 2 private rabbits for him.

Craig makes zero money from running and I can only hope he had a couple nights hotel and a free ticket to the pasta dinner the night before.

I think it's simple: US Marathon training has been lacking the specificity in training needed - it's what Canova has been preaching that last 8-10 week cycle of marathon specific work where Marathon pace long runs are key to 30-35km.

I just found a log from 2001, where I was trained by one of America's top marathoning minds (I was a 14-min guy) and my workouts consisted of 6-8 x 400m at 65 sec, 6 x 800m in 2:20, and 4-5 mile tempo runs at 5:30 pace. Looking back, this training doesn't make sense to run sub-2:18. Averaged 75-110 mi/week.

I wish I could have my prime back, where I could hammer 20 miles at 5:10/mi pace and that would consist of training.