1st year with no money after Under Armour pulls out as title sponsor. So no top ten finishers from Kenya or Ethiopia who can't speak English and who were also paid appearance fees. Lousy course. It would have been nice if they kept some prize money, didn't pay for carpetbagger runners and let the local runners get some glory.
Maybe rojo will win it this year - home course advantage.
Dr. Turd wrote:
top ten finishers from Kenya or Ethiopia who can't speak English and who were also paid appearance fees
Never happened.
This is part of why the Maryland road scene is so abysmal: there's hardly any prize money left. People talk about "the Kenyans", but you're not going to get even American sub-elites out of DC if you don't have prize money. The result is that there's not much competition up front.
For example, the Baltimore 10 miler had something like 4500 entrants @$60/runner and gave the winner a gift certificate to a running store. This year 5 people broke 60.
Corrigan Sports bragged about how they paid appearance fees and travel fees to bring these D list foreigners in.
You're very close: 4422 participants.First place was 52:04. Second place ran a time I used to tempo as a teenager. How is this possible? Is it a super-tough course or something?
Baltihorse wrote:
For example, the Baltimore 10 miler had something like 4500 entrants @$60/runner and gave the winner a gift certificate to a running store. This year 5 people broke 60.
When? I never heard anything about that. If they were so worried about the appearance fees, why not get rid of them and keep the prize money?
Basil wrote:
You're very close: 4422 participants.
First place was 52:04. Second place ran a time I used to tempo as a teenager. How is this possible? Is it a super-tough course or something?
It's not hard, but I wouldn't say it's the easiest course. The biggest thing is that it can be hot.
Still, there are plenty of fast people within an hour of Baltimore who'd come out if there was some prize money.
Baltihorse wrote:
It's not hard, but I wouldn't say it's the easiest course. The biggest thing is that it can be hot.
Still, there are plenty of fast people within an hour of Baltimore who'd come out if there was some prize money.
But what's the incentive for the race director to put up prize money? So maybe 10 additional guys sign up for the race? (Or, more likely, he'll have 10 additional guys e-mail him for comp entries.)
A little $ goes a long way.
Something like $1000, $500, $200 for the first three and you get some local competitive (white) guys showing up.
Double or triple that and you get C-Kenyans (2:15-2:20).
Increase it by 10x and you get B-Kenyans (2:10-2:15).
Increase it by 100x and you get A-Kenyans (2:06-2:10) that no one has ever heard of.
If you are the race director, how would you spend your money?
social e wrote:
But what's the incentive for the race director to put up prize money?
I figure if you like running enough to organize a large race then you would probably want a fast race.
social e wrote:
Baltihorse wrote:...Still, there are plenty of fast people within an hour of Baltimore who'd come out if there was some prize money.
But what's the incentive for the race director to put up prize money? So maybe 10 additional guys sign up for the race? (Or, more likely, he'll have 10 additional guys e-mail him for comp entries.)
Speaking as TD of a marathon that still offers prize money, albeit only about $15K total plus times incentives, we don't see offering prize money as having much impact one way or the other on our "paying customers". We do it because we think it's important to the sport in general to be able to have a few $ on the line for our top runners. If that's an incentive for men and women to train after college and try to be the best they can in this sport that's important to us. Also, we probably get a bit more local press due to their interest in "who are your fast guys this year?" which is not a bad thing in terms of community presence.
We're a not-for-profit company, if that matters.
NYCRuns.com offers prize money for their Brooklyn Marathon this year. $500 for first place. Considering you can only run 2-3 Marathons a year (ok, there are exceptions), this is not enough to attract high profile runners. This is meant to be a nice bonus for a 2:30 runner or so.
Considering there is WSX in NYC with a lot of imports, there is still the chance this race will be won by an African who doesn't even speak English ...
d2xccoach wrote:
Speaking as TD of a marathon that still offers prize money, albeit only about $15K total plus times incentives, we don't see offering prize money as having much impact one way or the other on our "paying customers". We do it because we think it's important to the sport in general to be able to have a few $ on the line for our top runners. If that's an incentive for men and women to train after college and try to be the best they can in this sport that's important to us. Also, we probably get a bit more local press due to their interest in "who are your fast guys this year?" which is not a bad thing in terms of community presence.
We're a not-for-profit company, if that matters.
One of the reasons a lot of Maryland races started reducing or dropping prize money was the influx of Ethiopians on the local racing scene.
If a race offered prize money for the top three, you could count on at least four or five Ethiopians from DC showing up. Not all would finish, but those that hung in would race just hard enough to finish in front of the "local elites." Guys that were capable of running in the low-14s would run 15:00, then do the same thing at another race the next day.
In the view of many race directors, this group brought nothing to the table. They didn't run elite times, barely spoke any English, constantly asked for comp entries for neighborhood races, and bolted as soon as they got their checks.
social e wrote:One of the reasons a lot of Maryland races started reducing or dropping prize money was the influx of Ethiopians on the local racing scene.
If a race offered prize money for the top three, you could count on at least four or five Ethiopians from DC showing up. Not all would finish, but those that hung in would race just hard enough to finish in front of the "local elites." Guys that were capable of running in the low-14s would run 15:00, then do the same thing at another race the next day.
In the view of many race directors, this group brought nothing to the table. They didn't run elite times, barely spoke any English, constantly asked for comp entries for neighborhood races, and bolted as soon as they got their checks.
This is the answer. B and C level Kenyans and Ethiopians who just show up for a check and leave don't add any value to the race from the standpoint of most RDs and most runners. Letting fast locals, high school kids, or whoever win even if there is no money probably benefits the race more because they will at least be likely to have a local connection and might be of some interest to the public and slower runners.
social e wrote:
d2xccoach wrote:Speaking as TD of a marathon that still offers prize money, albeit only about $15K total plus times incentives, we don't see offering prize money as having much impact one way or the other on our "paying customers". We do it because we think it's important to the sport in general to be able to have a few $ on the line for our top runners. If that's an incentive for men and women to train after college and try to be the best they can in this sport that's important to us. Also, we probably get a bit more local press due to their interest in "who are your fast guys this year?" which is not a bad thing in terms of community presence.
We're a not-for-profit company, if that matters.
One of the reasons a lot of Maryland races started reducing or dropping prize money was the influx of Ethiopians on the local racing scene.
If a race offered prize money for the top three, you could count on at least four or five Ethiopians from DC showing up. Not all would finish, but those that hung in would race just hard enough to finish in front of the "local elites." Guys that were capable of running in the low-14s would run 15:00, then do the same thing at another race the next day.
In the view of many race directors, this group brought nothing to the table. They didn't run elite times, barely spoke any English, constantly asked for comp entries for neighborhood races, and bolted as soon as they got their checks.
this^^ really is the truth. As an avid racer in the DC region, I see this all of the time in the spring and in the fall. A pack of Ethiopians will show up at any race that has money. Some may drop so that the others will win if they feel good. The next day they do the same thing. If a race does not have money, there are not Ethiopians.
I can't really blame them for earning some cash with their talent/ability, but they don't really offer much to the race directors as far as exposure, etc.
Wasn't Crackmore on here a few years ago about having very slow times making a nice amount of cash? Maybe in the half marathon?
Obviously, the breed of dog matters but also the way you train the dog. That said, no one wants a SCRAWNY dog. Most people are really impressed when they see a dog like this, superior genetics and you can tell it takes quite a bit of training (read: sprinting) to get to that kind of physique:
http://notepixel.com/files/funzug/imgs/wildlife/muscular_dog_wendy_01.jpg
Nutella1 wrote:
A little $ goes a long way.
Something like $1000, $500, $200 for the first three and you get some local competitive (white) guys showing up.
Double or triple that and you get C-Kenyans (2:15-2:20).
Increase it by 10x and you get B-Kenyans (2:10-2:15).
Increase it by 100x and you get A-Kenyans (2:06-2:10) that no one has ever heard of.
If you are the race director, how would you spend your money?
Without disrespect to Europeans, I would make the prize money like 10-20x as much as suggested above, but for runners in North America ONLY (Europeans can do the same approach back at home, the prime objective is to at least generate interest and prevent foreign exploitation.)
In the races with 100k or more for the winner, THIS is where you put Americans in their place.
Dr. Turd wrote:So no top ten finishers from Kenya or Ethiopia who can't speak English
Most of them probably speak English just as well as you do. Some likely better.
