Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 10/6

Here's my week:

M: 7.0 @ 7:18/mi. Chapel Hill

T: 7.0 @ 7:58/mi. San Antonio (hot @ 4:00 PM)

W: 0.0 Rest. Meetings, then fly home.

T: 9.5 @ 7:15/mi. Back on my old route in Chapel Hill

F: 7:0 @ 7:20/mi. Pre-ran Saturday's 10k course.

S: 1.5 warm-up. 6.2 race. Carrboro 10k (39:44)

S: 15.25 @ 7:48/mi.

Total: 53.5 miles

My time for Saturday's 10k was about :50 slower than the last time I ran this race (2011). Back then, I was running 70 miles per week while training for the NYC Marathon. On the positive side, my time was about :40 faster than this year's BAA 10k.

Also, Last night, I decided to try to improve my Boston qualifying time by registering for the Kiawah Island Marathon on 12/14. I've now got about 9 weeks to get in marathon shape.

Comments later.

Goal: Rothman 8k (Nov 18th)

Mon: 0

Tues: 8 (10 x 800 Around 8k pace)

Wed: 0

Thurs: 8

Fri through Sun - 3 (dang crappy ankle)

#1 thing I hate about fall, things laying on the ground under leaves...

My week was going to be a rest week aiming for a good 5k on Saturday back at my college with some friends but on a Friday morning easy run I stepped on a crabapple and rolled my ankle good. I have a history of ankle problems but I usually bounce back quickly, but not this time. The ankle is still sore and a bit swollen. This weekend hasn't really allowed me much time to be off it, so that might have delayed the healing. I was pretty disappointed to miss the race and catch up with some friends. I had done week at this race last year and was eager to get a good race under my belt, but it was not meant to be. Hopefully I will be able to get back running early next week. One positive was the workout on Tuesday. I felt good even though I had not been doing longer workouts. I have a good partner with this group I run with on Tuesday so me and him alternated leading sets and we kept the exact same pace throughout the workout. Felt like I could have done more too.

Stone Cutter - Nice to see you feeling good at the start of training. I think I might be aiming for that OD marathon in March with you.

Force runner - great race

Ramanugjan - welcome, hope you can hit your goal, what is your current track PR?

King Hobbyjogger and CMM - best of luck in Chicago

NP1112 - Tough weekend work! What does BP mean?

xenonscreams - I have to go back and look at the ankle advice you got last week. My IT issue got better once I stuck with a strengthening routine.

GarbageDisposal - I think you are selling yourself short on the race. 15 seconds faster then before, finished strong and competed well with some fast runners, sounds like a good race to me!

VF Runner - sorry to hear about the injury, I know it must be disappointing, hopefully you can get back running well soon.

Des - My advice, get healthy, go see a doctor now so that you can get everything cleared up before the race. Judging from your past, you have put in some killer training, so missing some workouts now will have minimum effect, but if mentally you don't feel like you are at 100% come race time, I think that will be a bigger problem then any loss of fitness. Good luck, get well!

reed wrote:

nice 3x2mi xenonscreams, is that 10k pace? 6:15? that would be a really tough workout, and it probably means that you could run at least 38:40s

Broken down by group it was a little slower than my 10K pace based on VDOT (I've only raced the 10K once and it was when I was extremely sick, so I don't have a real 10K PR) but I think my fitness is a little better than it used to be. It got mentally challenging toward the end but physically it was pretty much the best I've felt. When I got home I actually thought "I'm invincible!" while cooking dinner.

Then I remembered that every time I think that, I get injured, so I should be careful.

Then I got injured.

lol my life

Another week of running for me.

Monday- off

Tuesday- 5.5

Wednesday- 5.5

Thursday- off

Friday- 7.5

Saturday- off

Sunday- 7.5

So things are still going better. Runs are longer but not as frequent. My goal was five runs this week, Saturday ended up being a waste of a day. I contemplated a night run, but it was my current colleges homecoming/drunk week, and I did not want my introverted self to run into 100's of drunken coeds and risk a run in with the police to explain why I am running at 11:30 at night.

Mainly this week and felt stronger in my shins and stride. I am past the phase of being insecure that I can run fast again I know I can run fast!. So to avoid a painful powerful stride I adopted an efficient jogging form (8:00-8:30 pace) that allowed for hip motion and a forefoot strike. I am confident after another week of cross-training and strengthening 40 mpw is doable. I am hoping by the end of the month I can hit 40-50 consistently and thus start a base season.

Overall it is great to be running again and enjoying it. I could train all winter and run a 19:00 5k or a 15:00. Either way if it is pain-free and smooth I couldn't care less!

Hope everyone had a great week, I will try and reply.

Tiger is no more, Diesel is my pseudonym, sorry for the confusion, it is auto-fill's fault

Some more comments:

xenonscreams - I agree that you are definitely maturing as a runner. Great Tuesday workout, but even better decision-making over the weekend. Hope the knee feels better and good luck with your XC race next weekend.

TheGarbageDisposal - if you remember, it took me a couple of those informal race/tempo runs to work my way into shape over this summer. Sounds like you are going through the same thing. As long as you are making progress, I wouldn't sweat the times right now. Just keep working toward that longer term goal in 15 weeks.

reed - you are definitely on track for your yearly goals, and you are continuing to build on your fitness despite your disappointing showing in the 5k. Brush that one off and re-focus on the 8k in two weeks.

VF Runner - I feel for you, man. I know this hasn't been the cycle at all that you had envisioned. Sounds like life is really getting in the way right now, too. Sorry to hear.

des - There's not much running-wise you can do at this point that's going to make you more fit and faster in two weeks. Like Muebele said, the best thing you can do at this point is to get healthy and wipe whatever is in your system out.

I wouldn't consider a Plan B race unless you are still run- down the week of the race, or unless you lose tons of training between now and then. Best of luck.

printer - looks like your easy run paces have picked up in the last couple of weeks. I am interested to see how your abbreviated 9 week marathon cycle goes - it's something I may be considering for next fall.

Muebele - bummer about the ankle. Seems like you can't catch a break lately. It would be great if we both decide to do OD. Still making some decisions myself.

Diesel - glad to see the running picking up for you.

Des- Only rest and easy running until you are feeling better. See a doctor to be sure you don't need an antibiotic. This could be a blessing in disguise. Maybe your body was ready for the taper. You will probably feel better soon and be ready to on race day. Don't force any hard or long running until you feel better.

Hi! I always read this thread but only chimed in a couple times. I am consistently impressed by this discussion.

xenon - I may have missed someone else talking about this, but I find when I have had IT issues strengthening my hips and lower back fix it. Band walks and back extensions specifically keep proper tension on those muscles. For me anyway :)

Ramanujan I lurk on here. Posted 1 wk, got hurt and now I just read weekly until I have something to report.

I read your train me to sub 16 thread and all I can say about all that is written at this point is that you should follow Pikachu's advice. He normally posts on this thread and knows of what he speaks.

I am old timer, but I have a similar goal to you. Actually want to run a half marathon in March that would be equiv to a your 5km goal, so we are in a similar boat.

Garbage: looking good. Still progressing. Faster, more miles, longer runs, and feeling better. You cant beat that!

Reed: those days suck. Looks like you got a solid long run if it was hilly after. Congrats on the mileage pr too

Des: i havent been sick around this time in a taper. I did get some sort of head cold/ sore throat last year 2 days before a half. I took day/night quil and extra vit c and felt much better on race day (pr at the time). But those 2 days runs were a major struggle. I wouldnt adjust any goals till closer to the race.

Raman: you have some good speed. Should get that goal no prob

Runfix: very nice. Will be interesting to see your build up. The miles dont seem crazy to me. I like more miles lol

Printer: looks like youre progressing nicely and getting those races back down from post boston. Is that marathon in SC? I thik my girlfriend was wanting to do thar one

Muebele: that sucks about the ankle. Keep up on taking care of it and youll be back soon. BP is building pace. Forgot to put that

Tiger/diesel: congrats on the runs and feeling good. Most important part right there

Goal: Chicago, 2:45(?)

Last week, I wrote about nursing a slightly strained hamstring. Fortunately, it got better quickly and is back to normal. Pretty easy week for me.

M: 2 easy

Tues: 8 with 4 x 1 mile at MP (about 6:11 average, a bit fast)

Wed: 9 easy

Thurs: 8 easy

Fri: 7 easy

Sat: 10 with 4 at MP (6:11 avg, too fast, but oh well. Felt hard but it was humid).

Sun: 12 easy

Feeling ready for Chicago. Everything in working order, and no signs of illness.

King: If you've been able to handle 4 gels in the past, I would try to stick with that if you're confident your stomach will handle it. If you're like me, I just can't get much gatorade down during the water stops, even if I slow to a shuffle while drinking. And rather than drink a ton and run the risk of having to pee, I'd rather get those calories down via gels. I wouldn't skip them and risk bonking late in the race.

Week started good...

monday- 30'

tuesday- 35'

wednesday- 35'

thursday- 40'

friday- off

saturday- off

sunday- 40' w/ a couple of hard minutes in there

missed friday/saturday b/c a tornado took out our well pump thursday night.

Stone Cutter: Nice week! Whenever I come back from some time off I feel like I'm absolutely flying as well.

RunFix: Nice close to those K's. and thanks. I feel comfortable at this mileage right now but I'm sure it's going to be heaven cutting down a bit haha.

Ramanujan: Welcome welcome. Put in the work and your goal will come!

King: Nice cutdown on your tempo!

Cmm268: Wow nice 3,2,1 workout. And great long run as well.

NP1112: Nice cutdown on Tuesday. Smart to cut it on Saturday but you did get in some great volume on the weekend!

Xenon: Great week despite the injury :/. Whenever I do too much track work all of a sudden my left side tightens up as well so that is the probably the case!

Garbage: You're getting in some good volume! And great close to the long run.

Reed: Nice week! That’s a great cutdown on the 2ks.

VF: hope to hear good news soon!

Des: Whenever I get sickness like that I try to hydrate a bit more. Running usually makes me feel a bit better though. Just keeping it easy seems to make my system jumpstart fighting whatever has me down.

Printer: Looks like lots of moving around this week!

Muebele: We have large black walnuts on the ground where I live. I hate staring at the ground the whole run, but it's a must unless you want your ankle flipped.

Diesel: Consistency is key! Looking forward to watching a good buildup.

Napper: Looks like you're getting comfortable with the 6:11s though!

Happy Monday all. 47 mile week for me. Notables . . .

Wed: 5K interval workout - 1500, 1100, 800, 600, 1000. About 90 to 120 seconds rest between efforts. 16:34 (splits 5:21, 5:27, 5:14 - explanation below)

Sun: 11 miler w/a cut down tempo for miles 2-6 (6:45, 6:25, 6:10, 5:50) 77 minutes for entire run (7:00s)

I've been doing the 5K interval workout for a year or so now and it is usually a pretty good indicator as to where I am at for 5k CC fitness assuming a relatively flat course. 1st 2.3 miles were on dirt with several sharp turns and pretty bad footing - decent CC simulation - but no hills. Last 1000 (because I felt like near death and was about to bag the workout all-together) was on the track, which happened to be right next to the dirt loop I was running. Amazing how much easier the track 1000 felt.

Sunday 4 mile pickup was very controlled - maybe 75% by the end of it.

My next race will be 5K CC on Saturday. I am about 90% recovered from the sinus infection that has plagued me for the last several weeks. Enough about me, you guys are ki!!ing it this week.

stone cut I think your modest increase in every day pace will pay off huge in the end. Quoting from perhaps the greatest college CC coach of all time, "carefully increased volume, prudently longer “long” runs, and methodically faster daily pace, will all bring significant gains." Keep it up.

Fix Nice 12 mile cut down and solid 1Ks.

Ramanujan Welcome. I have Masters PRs of 4:18 for 1500 and 16:20 5K (road) so we are somewhat similar. If go time is not until the Spring, I would just keep running for now. Nothing wrong with tempos that are not too crazy and long runs (90+minutes) at honest paces. Mix in the occasional race as it looks like you are doing and then you can start turning them over in late winter. Also, although I have not read your other thread, if in fact Pikachu is chiming in, I would listen. Large luck and if you have questions for me, post a reply.

Pikachu & Pablo Where the he!! are you guys?

Force Great 8k. And FWIW IMO, you are not ultimately gonna be a 25:00 8K runner; you will be sub 25:00 or better.

Hobbyjog 1) I am a huge fan of a less is better taper. When in doubt, I sit on the couch the week before a big race. Nothing wrong with what you suggest though. 2) I will defer to the marathon runners.

cmm I like the 6 mile set and the week.

GargageD Nothing wrong w/that 11:30. Keep racing.

reed 16:40 on 70+ mpw nothing to scoff @. When you get your legs back with a taper, you will be fine

des I am no marathon expert, but you need to get that shi! out of your lungs as best you can. When in doubt, rest. You've put in the work already.

printer nice to see you racing and angling for Boston.

qrkid Come back and start posting. Need more old-timers here as I am surrounded by younger, faster studs.

A good week to all.

Napper- Thats good news about the hamstring. Keep things easy still for another week or so just in case. Couldn't help but notice that you did your repeats at the same pace as your long run progression. I could never do that lol. But probably makes sense if you're aiming at that pace for the marathon. Good luck!

Ca$hclay I was actually going to start posting again this past Sunday b/c I had got the weekly miles up to 30, so I would at least have something to type. Well then I was sick all week and only ran once.

Not sure why I did not comment all this time. Will start back this coming Sunday, that way you can have some over the hill company.

Cashclay,

Thanks for the advice. Really just curious about tempo pace though. Should I build up to that 5:40 or so tempo pace that the 15:59 5k VDOT is at? Currently I do tempos at 6:15. Curious as how to build gradually and how to turn that pace down throughout the next few months.

Ramanujan wrote:

Cashclay,

Thanks for the advice. Really just curious about tempo pace though. Should I build up to that 5:40 or so tempo pace that the 15:59 5k VDOT is at? Currently I do tempos at 6:15. Curious as how to build gradually and how to turn that pace down throughout the next few months.

I would not worry too much about the actual time on the watch at this point. Just go out and run @ a comfortably hard effort. I am kind of old school that way and truly believe that your body/breathing are the best indicators of output. Sometimes its best to leave the watch @ home and just run hard. On my cut downs, I often won't even look @ the clock until I'm done, but can usually predict what I ran for splits with decent accuracy. 6:15 seems plenty fast for now, but you are obviously going to gradually ease that down well below 6:00 as you are getting back into it. Best way to do this IMO is slowly and methodically increasing your daily pace, including most of your "easy" days and also tend to that long run every 10 days or so - 90+ minutes or longer if your body can handle it. Strides so that you can get familiar w/the faster turnover you will need later in the season also good. I am also a fan of racing as much as prudently possible, especially if you are young and your body can handle it. The races can end up being great tempo runs as well.

My email is attached if you want to chat more or have a look at some of my 5K specific training the last few years.

ramanujan

it would be helpful to know your PRs/running history before we have much to say about your training and stuff.

but for now, none of it matters. now is the time to get in a solid base before the spring. and that's all about the miles.

looks like youre around 50 mpw. get that to 60 by november, 65-70 by the end of the year, on mostly singles. maybe 2 doubles per week.

as for workouts during this time period, i'd stick to 10k pace and slower. easy tempos, no hands-on-knees workouts.

i wouldn't worry about the paces of those runs and workouts. stick with effort for now, as it seems you don't know what shape you're in anyway.

about me: a year ago today i was a 17 flat 5k guy, 27:40s 8k, 35:00 10k guy. then i bumped my mileage from 60 to 70s for 3 months with no breaks. i broke 16 on the track in march. so it just took me about 4 months to get to that next level. who knows how long it could take you. i had been stagnating at 17 flat for about a year.

good luck