Are you a fencer that rides horses? A shooter than enjoys running and swimming? Its so all over the board and so tuned to "the great war" era of military training that it's hard to fathom where we, or anyone for that matter, find their pentathaletes (?). Do the various military academies still stress the Pentathlon in training?
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9
I'm a former GB Modern Pentahlon Team member. It's a bonkers sport.
Knew a couple of pentathletes who trained at the Army's center in San Antonio. One had a triathlon/swimming background, the other was a winter biathlete. It seems as though the majority of the guys training there (this was about 10 years ago) had similar endurance athlete backgrounds, and were then trained in the skill sports (marksmenship, horseback riding, fencing).
When I was in the U.S. Air Force (in the early 80s), I was told that, if an athlete had certain qualifying times in swimming and running, he would be considered for the U.S. pentathlon program. The athlete would be trained in the other three disciplines upon entering the program.
So, you could take a good triathelete and teach them the skill events and be fine? What if you just got a 28 minute 10ker, did crappy in the other events and took the handicap in the XC, could that person still make up enough ground or are they actually decent runners as well?
the top guys run in the low 9:00s for 3k on an XC course. (apprx 1225 pts)
swimming is the area where guys usually score the most points, fencing the least.
horse riding has a cap of 1200 points, and shooting has a cap as well, 1206 points.
an 8 minute 3k would get you around 1500 points - about 500-700 more than what the normal athlete would score.
Little known fact: Dolph Lundgren (The Russian from Rocky 4) competed in Atlanta in the modern pentathlon.
Ironman wrote:
Little known fact: Dolph Lundgren (The Russian from Rocky 4) competed in Atlanta in the modern pentathlon.
close, but no. lundgren was the u.s. team leader in atlanta - he was in charge of athletes' living arrangements - he did not actually compete.
however, little known lundgren facts: he's got a master's degree in chemical engineering, and was awarded a fulbright scholarship to MIT.
The Army does not have a modern pentathalon training facility. That facility belongs to the Modern Pentathalon Training Team....
The Army does have a military pentathalon training facility. It consists of NATO land obstacle, water obstacle, orienteering, shooting rifle and pistol. The events are completly different.
9,
You’re right about the sport being all over the board in terms of skills. Generally the U.S. athletes have come from swimming backgrounds. The Europeans have tended to recruit athletes from a broader range of sports including at least one guy who was a shooter first.
Because of the way the point table is set up, you need to be a strong swimmer. You only swim 200m but you need to be able to go 2:10 or faster to be competitive internationally. The run, a cross country 3k, is not done quickly by running standards (best pentathletes do it in 8:50) but, like a triathlon 10k, its very hard to run fast after you’ve already done others sports. The best pentathletes can run a 3k in 8:25-30 when rested so if you’re that fast or faster and can swim, you might think about it.
Doped Up commented on the scoring system and how well a very good runner could do but he was a little off on his calculation. Generally, to win a top level pentathlon these days you need to score 5,600-5,800. A perfect day would be 1,100 shoot, 1,000 fence, 1,250 swim, 1,200 ride and 1,200 run. For detailed information on the scoring table go here:
http://www.modern-pentathlon.com/
When it comes to running, you get 1,000 points for a 10:00 3k. Every second faster is worth 4 pentathlon points. So, if you were to crank an 8:00 3k, you'd be 120 seconds under 10min and would earn 1,480 pentathlon points. As I stated above, the best runners generally go between 8:50 and 9:00 (1,240 - 1,280 pentathlon points) so you'd only pick up 200 points on them. Frankly, that would help you move from 32nd to 30th in a real competition (there are 32 competitors in a pentathlon final). Even if you keep it close during the shooting (something most beginners really struggle with), you're dead in the fencing for at least 3 years. By dead I'm talking about scoring 400-600 points. And, of course you could have a great day in the first three events and end up getting a rotten horse, pull every rail and drop 4-500 points behind the field in that event alone.
If you can swim and run a bit, the most critical thing is to be a coachable athlete as the other three sports, especially fencing, are very tough to pick up when you’re in your 20s. I don’t think its an overstatement to say that to become a good fencer internationally you need to allocate 3 hours a day, 5-6 days a week for at least 5 years. For shooting, 1.5 hours a day, 5 days a week for 3 years and riding, 2-3 sessions a week for at least 2 years. You generally end up with one head coach and 2 or 3 event-specific coaches thus my statement about being coachable.
I can only speak from my experience but what got me into pentathlon was the potential to be competitive in an Olympic sport within 4-8 years (or so I thought). I was never going to go better than 14:30 5k, but I still wanted to compete in something at a high (eg. meaningful) level. I was a good swimmer throughout high school and simply looked at the Pentathlon tables and calculated that if I swam the times I did in HS and ran what I did in college, I'd be competitive with the best in the world. I found Pentathlon to be an excellent physical and mental challenge as I learned to shoot, fence and ride a horse at an international level. Like all multi-sport events, the hard part was doing all five sports pretty well on the same day. Very, very tough, especially since every competition you have to deal with an unfamiliar horse. I quit after 4 years to get on with my life but you need look no farther than Chad Senior to see what a guy with a great run/swim and a fantastic work ethic did by dedicating himself to the sport for 8 years. He should have won the gold in Sydney and I wouldn't be surprised to see him win gold tomorrow.
If your interested in getting into pentathlon, I'd recommend calling 303-321-8657 which is the Cheyenne Fencing and Modern Pentatlon Center in Denver. Head Coach is Janusz Peciak, 1976 Gold Medallist from Poland and former US national team coach. He's the best pentathlon coach in the world. All the best guys, except one, trained there the last eight years. You can email me off line at
if you want more info.
oldguy wrote:
When I was in the U.S. Air Force (in the early 80s), I was told that, if an athlete had certain qualifying times in swimming and running, he would be considered for the U.S. pentathlon program. The athlete would be trained in the other three disciplines upon entering the program.
That's what I recall from the UK, it was mainly military personnel, my neice was recruited principally because she was a good swimmer, they reckon they can teach a lot of the other events but it's too late to teach swimming.
9,
Today's men's pentathlon made clear why the ride, no matter how much you train or how good of an athlete you are, is such a pain in the ass. The guy in second place going into the ride got a shitty horse who refused virtually every jump and he went all the way back to last place. Not fun.
Jeremie Perry was a DIII NCAA XC champ in 94 for Williams college. He's now a top pentathlete, but just missed the Olympic team, I think because a Russian started competing for the US. Too bad, would have been cool to have someone I ran "against" (he was waaay ahead of me) in the Olympics.
There was an article in the Wall Street Journal the other day about it. (I'd link it, but it's subscription-required.) Turns out that the horse issue turns in part on how comfortable the horse is with the rider so that
In modern pentathlon, animal empathy is key. The biggest stumbling block for most athletes in the five-discipline sport is the equestrian jumping event -- on an unfamiliar horse.
"If they can't give good vibes to animals, I don't care if they are the best athlete in the world, they are never going to make it," Mr. Marbut says.
Ask Chad Senior, one of two U.S. men competing in Athens and a recovering horse-hater. At the 2000 Olympics in Sydney, he shot great, fenced like a dream, and swam well. He was leading the pentathlon until he met his horse; the disastrous ride knocked him out of contention and he quit the sport for a year.
"I was pretty bent out of shape with horses," says the 29-year-old U.S. Army first lieutenant. The team sent him to riding camps all over the country. His cat-loving wife, Margaret, filled the house with animals -- on team orders -- despite his allergies. Now he wants to become a large-animal veterinarian "if I can trick any schools into letting me in," he says.
The article also notes that the Federation (USA Pentathlon) cold-calls athletes that are good in sports like swimming but not good enough to have a shot at the Olympics in that sport.
Senior came in 13th.