Four Americans, one 38 years old, just ran sub 13:09. And you still think thyroid and TUEs are not being abused?

Yes, every American should get stuck at 13:10 perpetually.

to holy to dope wrote:

In September! Pre 2008 they would have all entered the US all-time top ten list. now its just a normal occurance. Training harder?

No way, athletes are training much harder than ever before. I'm really good friends with most of them. Kenyans too.

it is all mental. they are clean.

Jordan Guenther wrote:

to holy to dope wrote:

In September! Pre 2008 they would have all entered the US all-time top ten list. now its just a normal occurance. Training harder?

No way, athletes are training much harder than ever before. I'm really good friends with most of them. Kenyans too.

Yeah those old guys from the past like Todd Williams, Joe Falcon, Bruce Bickford, and Craig Virgin would have ran a lot faster if they weren't so darn lazy and trained harder.

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Yes, every American should get stuck at 13:10 perpetually.

Well that seemed to be the case before our friends Thyroid med and TUEs. Training harder and these meds seemed to arise at the same time. What a coincidence.

Absolutely Zero Stones wrote:

What are you talking about? There was no 38-year-old American in that race who broke 13:09. In any case, Jager is legit.

You're trying to hard man. Better go brush up on your trolling skills, perhaps at Yahoo answers. They are more at your level.

to holy to dope wrote:

Well that seemed to be the case before our friends Thyroid med and TUEs. Training harder and these meds seemed to arise at the same time. What a coincidence.

Some questions:

1. What runners in this race have TUEs (and how do you know)?

2. What runners in this race use thyroid meds (apart from Rupp, who I believe has admitted it)?

3. Why do you think thyroid meds and TUEs are behind the drop in times?

I've read a lot of unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo on these boards about thyroid meds and TUEs, but I've almost never seen anything from a reputable source with good information that indicates that either is widespread or performance-enhancing. Just because a lot of loudmouths on the boards say it over and over again doesn't mean it's true.

to holy to dope wrote:

Well that seemed to be the case before our friends Thyroid med and TUEs. Training harder and these meds seemed to arise at the same time. What a coincidence.

I just think this is asinine. Synthetic EPO was available and undetectable for most the 1990s and yet the US men's records for 800m, 1500m, Mile and 10000m all dated back to the 1980s. Only Kennedy was able to knock three seconds in total off of both Maree's 3000m and 5000m records.

And now, when drug controls are much, much stricter than they have ever previously been, now drugs are fueling American middle distance resurgence?

Why don't you detail all you know about thyroid medication and therapeutic use exemptions for:

Lagat

Solinsky

Ritzenhein

Rupp

Tegenkamp

Jager

Derrick

I think the internet is a big reason for the improvement the US has seen in the last 10+ years. There has always been a good deal of talent in the US, and the scholastic academic system is great for bringing out that talent. But now there's more information being shared about who is doing what in training and racing and the young talents are getting more attention and more of a reason to stay in the sport. Gone are the days where the best few high school track stars would shuttle out to Sacramento for Golden West, get their name in the newspaper and go home. Now there's video of nearly anything worth watching, and they're vying for spots at Nike and New Balance national championships and for spots in the adidas mile in New York. At the scholastic level, there are many more avenues to becoming a star.

I think most of us expected all four to run under 13:10. Zurich and Brussels, post-championships meets, always produce fast times. A 13:01 is no surprise for Jager; he must hadn't run 5000 that often. I expected better than 13:01 from Rupp.

Honestly, if some of you really do believe absolutely everyone is on drugs, why are you fans of this sport?

to holy to dope wrote:

Four Americans, one 38 years old, just ran sub 13:09. And you still think thyroid and TUEs are not being abused?

Now that DyeStat has been revived, perhaps trolling of this quality would be welcome over there? If not, I'm sure that your attitude would fit right in amongst your teenage friends in the Xbox Live post-game lobbies.

Yes. Why shouldn't I? These numbers aren't statistically significant.

I agree with your post entirely, and I would add one thing to it--well, actually two: Ritz and Webb. My sense is that they had a fairly large role to play in regenerating the pursuit of middle and long distance excellence, especially at the scholastic level, over the course of the last ten to twelve years. I remember very distinctly the influence that Lindgren and Ryun had, which culminated in guys like Shorter, Virgin, and Pre. Those guys had a great effect on me: I had whatever pictures I could find of Lindgren and Ryun up on my bedroom wall. Now, I suppose on this website I would derogatorily have been called a "fanboy,"--well, I was fourteen years old and looking for heroes, which, as I look back, wasn't a bad thing at all.

Agreed, and I would throw Hall in there, too. It was advantageous that those three came about when they did, as video on the internet became more accessible.

I'm sure Jim Ryun had some amazing runs in Kansas high school meets, but you would have to get those results in a newspaper and apart from his sub-4 runs, they're only going to carry so far.

Today, someone like Trevor Dunbar can crack 9:00 in a solo run in Kodiak, AK and post the video online and then everyone knows who he is.

The rest of the world's non-African runners need to cheat to run this fast. But all Americans needed was the internet.

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Why don't you detail all you know about thyroid medication and therapeutic use exemptions for:

What do I know? I don't. I also didn't "know" about Lance until he came clean on Oprah. But I do know American elites are starting to come forward about what is occuring in US distance right now.

The coincidence is still solid: rumors of rampant thyroid med abuse and sub 13:10 by Americans, particularly in the northwest, becoming common place.

The coincidence is not solid. 13:10 is not a world class time.Which of these athletes are from the Northwest?You should have known about Lance before Oprah.

to holy to dope wrote:

What do I know? I don't. I also didn't "know" about Lance until he came clean on Oprah. But I do know American elites are starting to come forward about what is occuring in US distance right now.

The coincidence is still solid: rumors of rampant thyroid med abuse and sub 13:10 by Americans, particularly in the northwest, becoming common place.

rekrunner wrote:

The coincidence is not solid. 13:10 is not a world class time.

Which of these athletes are from the Northwest?

You should have known about Lance before Oprah.

to holy to dope wrote:

What do I know? I don't. I also didn't "know" about Lance until he came clean on Oprah. But I do know American elites are starting to come forward about what is occuring in US distance right now.

The coincidence is still solid: rumors of rampant thyroid med abuse and sub 13:10 by Americans, particularly in the northwest, becoming common place.

Ok, so you're bitchin' about the lack of performance by the rest of the world's non-Africans.

But, you know what, a lot of them have given up on the sport. They don't have a system in place (as in the much maligned high school and NCAA systems in the US) to promote runners as they progress through school. Then, they are not incorporating solid support with first rate coaching and living situation as is happening with guys like Rupp, Jager, etc.. In other words, Rupp et al have advantages that are not equaled in other European countries. Even Mo Farah's success is, in part, due to the work and support of NOP.

Don't you remember Moorcroft? What about the Australian - Moltran, 12:56 about in 2006? Moorcroft ran 13:00 30 years ago (1982). It can be done. It is being done.

None of these athletes did anything unexpected. All ran times that were basically predicted of them (maybe Rupp a little slower than prediction.)