Philosophy on speed training during base phase?

long slow distance produces slow runners

train at various paces, train different systems, ex: sprint, speed endurance, VO2 max, etc, include easy runs, tempo runs...

doing weeks of mainly mileage is a waste of time except for resuming training after a break. then do maybe 2 weeks of jogging and 2 weeks of mileage build up. then start pace training

I think one day we'll look back on the days of strict linear periodization during the base phase & think WTF were we doing?

How would mixing in some occasional moderately intense speed work during a base period lead to injury?

I agree with you. It's not like we aren't in good physical shape to handle it.

Speed all year long is conducive to long-term neuromuscular development.

Really, who says?

horwill 5 pace system wrote:

long slow distance produces slow runners

train at various paces, train different systems, ex: sprint, speed endurance, VO2 max, etc, include easy runs, tempo runs...

doing weeks of mainly mileage is a waste of time except for resuming training after a break. then do maybe 2 weeks of jogging and 2 weeks of mileage build up. then start pace training

Variety is good. I'd say that speed is ok but I'd avoid anaerobic stuff during base training or offseason stuff. Think strides or 200's with FULL recovery. Make sense?

You should be working on your speed all year long. Why would you ever give up such an important component to training? If you want to run fast you have to run fast.

Marcus Strong wrote:

horwill 5 pace system wrote:

long slow distance produces slow runners

train at various paces, train different systems, ex: sprint, speed endurance, VO2 max, etc, include easy runs, tempo runs...

doing weeks of mainly mileage is a waste of time except for resuming training after a break. then do maybe 2 weeks of jogging and 2 weeks of mileage build up. then start pace training

Variety is good. I'd say that speed is ok but I'd avoid anaerobic stuff during base training or offseason stuff. Think strides or 200's with FULL recovery. Make sense?

This is correct! Elite marathoners even do all out short hill sprints throughout their training. Just make sure that its short enough and with enough rest inbetween to remain alactic. You shouldn't be bent over from exhaustion after each repeat.

yeah, wouldn't want to go all alactic or something. Not like that would ever happen in a race, so be sure you don't ever run too fast in practice. Wouldn't wanna hurt yourself.....

Marcus Strong wrote:

Variety is good. I'd say that speed is ok but I'd avoid anaerobic stuff during base training or offseason stuff. Think strides or 200's with FULL recovery. Make sense?

200's with full recover IS anaerobic fool.

This is relatively new but very worthwhile. You need to develop all of the systems all year round. Those middle distance runners who run mileage all year round then start sprinting right before their big races get injured and can't possibly be ready for the big race when they are not used to those sprint workouts.

furthermore, distance runners need to learn how to sprint. That takes work over the entire year. Don't confuse sprinting with running hard 200s. 40 - 60m is fine for sprinting early in the year.

800Coach wrote:

This is relatively new but very worthwhile. You need to develop all of the systems all year round. Those middle distance runners who run mileage all year round then start sprinting right before their big races get injured and can't possibly be ready for the big race when they are not used to those sprint workouts.

furthermore, distance runners need to learn how to sprint. That takes work over the entire year. Don't confuse sprinting with running hard 200s. 40 - 60m is fine for sprinting early in the year.

And do it as a separate session, with a day's recovery either side.

During base, you should be doing strides and short intervals with plenty of rest to maintain leg turnover. The rest should be easy build-up mileage to levels the athlete has never gone before.

2 problems with using the multi-pace system year-round:

- Increasing speed and volume at the same time puts you at much greater risk for injury. Unless you've been running high mileage (80+) for many years, volume by itself will lead to significant improvement.

- The same stimulus repeated week after week is why runners hit plateaus, grow stale, and may even start to get slower. The idea behind periodization is to create subtle adaptations and build from one fitnes level to the next.

He means avoid high lactate loads. Also, 200s with full jogging recovery is an aerobic workout. However, I've heard lactic acid is exactly what you want during base training for the 400. Not sure how that applies to the 8/ 15

200's with full recover IS anaerobic fool.

[quote]Therealtruth wrote:

200s with full jogging recovery is an aerobic workout.

[quote]

No, it's not. You have no idea what you are talking about.

well actually wrote:

[quote]Therealtruth wrote:

200s with full jogging recovery is an aerobic workout.

[quote]

No, it's not. You have no idea what you are talking about.

it depends on the intensity of the interval. For example, lets use a 1:54 800 runner. For that person, a set of 200's in 24-25 w/ full rest is an anaerobic workout. However, running a set in 28-30 would be an aerobic workout that also provides speed maintenance.

The 5 pace system is used for 12 weeks prior to the track season, following a base period.

And tends to be done at target pace.

But even in the base period you can use the 5 pace system but a bit looser.

A mile of strides?

Haven't read the thread, but just listen to your coach. There are different ways to train well. If he has produced good teams he knows what he is doing. A standout individual has good genes and good training, maybe your coach hasn't lucked out and hit that genetically gifted athlete yet.

The general idea of year round speed though is to never lose and constantly improve your speed. This works for some athletes when implemented properly. For some athletes it causes staleness, early peak, injury, etc.

Just have a good coach(which you do) and don't question his training. To do well as an athlete you need the luck of finding a good coach and being obedient. Don't question or doubt the training. They know what is best. Trust them. Don't ask anonymous strangers how to train when you have a good coach who actually knows you in person.