I vote Missouri
I vote Missouri
lol NOT CALIFORNIA
dumb question...nobody has raced on every state course. you could look at elevation profiles, but that doesn't tell the whole story.
i have no opinion as i've only done the PA and CA courses (woodward park, parkview) parkview in PA was way harder
MD in recent years - Hereford HS:
NY--Sunken Meadow? It was the only State-championship meet I've ever been to where *multiple* kids were walking.
Vermont, and it's not close.
Could just mean that NY kids are soft and/or start the race way too fast.
The CO course in Colorado Springs is at over 6000 feet, which alone makes it tough. I did not compete there in HS but ran for Colorado College XC in college. I lived at home near sea level in CA during the summers and returning to Colo. Springs for XC in fall was tough.
Sore subject for me. Michigan's is awful. It's basically a track... at a (race) track. Sure, Ritz ran 14:0 something and that's all impressive, but I'd rather have seen him run 15:08 on a real course. And still win by a minute.
MD without a doubt. 3 mile course were Centro couldnt break 16 minutes...
only a hand full of runners have ever went under 16 minutes there.
Idaho rotates their state course, but a few of the courses they use are just awful. Hells Gate and Soda Springs are both awful.
Derryfield Park in New Hampshire is tough. You run up the side of a ski hill...
could do much better wrote:
Sore subject for me. Michigan's is awful. It's basically a track... at a (race) track. Sure, Ritz ran 14:0 something and that's all impressive, but I'd rather have seen him run 15:08 on a real course. And still win by a minute.
Yeah, what he said. I ran in MI during the era BEFORE this travesty and we had four different State Meet sites in the lower peninsula, one for each class. They were all at golf courses or large parks.
Now, I am not going to claim that running at the various golf courses in Howell, Hartland, Ann Arbor, or Flint were "tough" ... but they had a little in terms of rolling hills, and excellent soft turf. The site at MIS is just like a road race with very short-manicured grass and gentle turns. So flat you can see everyone in front of you the whole way. I mean everyone!
I have never run there, but from what I understand Holmdel Park in NJ is very tough. So tough that I think some strong runners like Ryan Grote did not break 17:00 there.
I believe Ritz ran 14:10 at MIS in 2000. I was there and he beat Chris Toloff (who ran 4:10 for 1600 as a soph) by a full minute, and his teammate Tim Moore (who eventually ran 9:08 for 3200 and won FL in between Ritz and Solinsky) by a litle more. That was probably the best State Meet performance in MI history, but it was not recognized as such because the course is so easy and so fast. Many, many kids run 40-60 seconds faster than they run on real XC courses that have some rollers and turns and soft ground ... or god forbid some WOODS!!
Imagine beating FL finalist-types and 1:53/4:10 types by a full minute? That performance ahead of a solid Toloff and the fact that Ritz had run 1:54/4:05.9 the Spring before had us all speculating that Ritz could break 4:00y the next spring. Glory Days!!
Maryland's 3 mile course is very tough for a 3 mile course.
Vermont and Colorado are the other two that come immediately to mind. (Colorado only as of the last year or two, with the move to Colorado Springs)
I don't think any other state meet course is really in the same league. I couldn't pick a "toughest" out of those three (though I'd probably lean towards the two 5k courses over Hereford)
lease wrote:
NY--Sunken Meadow? It was the only State-championship meet I've ever been to where *multiple* kids were walking.
Sunken Meadow is deceiving. When you walk the course it doesn't seem to bad but that hill is a killer.
But, I think Bowdoin Park is tougher- uphill start and you have to get out fast or your cooked. Then the steep downhills and the loooong flat section around the field at the end.
Thetford Academy in Vermont - course would be hard enough dry with constant up and downs yet it almost always a mudslide, a slip and slide with virtually no traction.
My junior year I ran about 17:15 on NH's Derryfield Park which is also an extremely difficult course, then a week later 19:40 at Thetford in the pouring rain and complete mudslight
Upstate, New York.
The answer is Vermont. This is not even a question. You could be a 14:30 5000 guy on the track and not break 17 on that course.
Exact same story in Ohio. It's around a drag strip. You can't even see hills in the distance.
Another Option wrote:
Exact same story in Ohio. It's around a drag strip.
Obviously not as good as Scioto Downs. If you are not sitting at the top of the stands, you can not see most of the race.
Not spectator friendly.
Which begs the question? Which state courses are the WORST in the spectator friendly category?? The BEST??